[1. CALL TO ORDER.] [2. MINUTES.] [00:00:13] >> THE AUGUST SEPTEMBER THE 17T, 2024. THERE SHOULD BE MINUTES FROM SEPTEMBER THE THIRD, ARE THERE ANY ADDITIONS? IS THERE A [3. INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT BOARD.] MOVE TO APPROVE? >> APPROVED. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY I. THE INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT BOARD, MAYOR PRO TEM WHITTEN? >> OCTOBER 9TH, 2030, WE HAVE TWO INCUMBENTS, CHRIS ROBERTS, TWO FULL TERMS AND JAY GOGUE. I WOULD LIKE TO ASK TO REAPPOINT CHRIS ROBERTS TO A THIRD TERM. >> SECOND. >> A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT CHRIS ROBERTS, ANY COMMENTS FROM THE DAIS? >> ON THIS PART OF IT, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT, I WAS JUST WONDERING ABOUT THE TERMS, HOW MANY TERMS CAN A PERSON SERVE? >> THEY CAN SERVE AS MANY AS WE WOULD LIKE FOR THEM TO. I APPRECIATE YOU ASKING THAT CLARIFICATION QUESTION, MITCH -- MS. TAYLOR. I THINK IT IS UNUSUAL AND IT IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR US AND A BLESSING THAT OUR UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT WOULD SEEK SOME OF HIS TIME THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF THAT IS NOT INVOLVED WITH HIS JOB ASSISTING OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR CITY AS WE DO INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT AND WE'RE CERTAINLY A PREVIEW -- APPRECIATIVE ABOUT. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. ANY OPPOSED? CHRIS ROBERTS IS CONFIRMED, WE WILL CONTEND TO CONFIRM LATER ON. >> JAY GOGUE, I WOULD LIKE TO NOMINATE JAY GOGUE FOR A SECOND FULL TERM. >> SECOND. >> I HAVE A SECOND FOR JAY GOGUE, ANY COMMENTS? I WILL ECHO, AS A FORMER UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT, AT AUBURN, HE WANTS TO BE A PART OF WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE AND HE IS MOONLIGHTING AT ANOTHER UNIVERSITY OUT WEST RIGHT NOW, BUT HE WILL BE BACK. HE IS STILL A RESIDENT OF AUBURN, BUT HE'S HELPING THEM THROUGH A TRANSITIONAL TIME OUT THERE. DR. GOGUE HAS BEEN A GREAT SUPPORT OF OUR COMMUNITY, WE ARE HAPPY TO HAVE HIM RETURNING. ALL RIGHT, WE HAVE A [4. LEE COUNTY YOUTH DEVELOPMENT CENTER.] MOTION AND A SECOND, ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE. >> AYE. >> ANY OPPOSED? USE COUNTY DEVELOPMENT, MAYOR PRO TEM? >> WE HAVE AN INCUMBENT, J JONES, FOUR FULL TERMS, I WOULD LIKE TO RECOMMEND THAT WE NOMINATE JAY JONES FOR A SECOND TERM. >> I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR JAY JONES, ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? >> I THINK HE PROBABLY HAS THE EXPERIENCE TO DO THAT POSITION. BEEN AROUND A LITTLE WHILE. >> THANK YOU, CHIEF. >> I WOULD LIKE TO ECHO THAT AND SAY THAT SHERIFF JAY JONES HAS BEEN SHERIFF SINCE JANUARY OF 1999, BEEN WITH THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT MORE THAN 45 YEARS. AND HE IS A MAN OF HIGH INTEGRITY AND , CERTAINLY, LONG EXPERIENCE AND WELL SUITED TO BE A MEMBER OF THE LEE COUNTY YOUTH DEVELOPMENT BOARD. I SECOND THAT NOMINATION OR INDOORS. >> FOR EVERYBODY TO UNDERSTAND, SHERIFF JONES IS ACTUALLY A RESIDENT OF OUR COMMUNITY, SO HE IS PART OF OUR RESPONSIBILITY IF WE WANT TO PUT HIM ON, IT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO NOMINATE SHERIFF JONES TO BE ON THE DEVELOPMENT CENTER SINCE HE IS AN AUBURN RESIDENT. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE [5. PROPOSED EAST UNIVERSITY SIDEWALK (OLD MILL RD TO MCKINLEY AVE) UPDATE] SAY I. ANY OPPOSED? SHERIFF JAY JONES WILL BE REAPPOINTED TO THE LEE COUNTY YOUTH DEVELOPMENT CENTER. COUNCILMAN MOORMAN, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO YOU NOW. >> THE ISSUE OF A SECOND SIDEWALK ON EAST UNIVERSITY AROSE FROM A CONCERNED CITIZEN. REGARDING THE SAFETY OF STUDENTS WALKING TO AND FROM AUBURN HIGH SCHOOL USING OLD MILL ROAD AND UNIVERSITY. THIS IS A BUSY INTERSECTION AND IT IS DIFFICULT TO CROSS ON FOOT. TO GET TO THE SIDEWALK ON THE EAST SIDE OF UNIVERSITY. THE NORMAL ROUTE FOR STUDENTS WHO DON'T CROSS AT OLD MILL IS TO GO UP UNIVERSITY ON THE WEST SIDE, TRAVELING THROUGH PEOPLE'S YARDS, AND ENTERING THE SCHOOL PROPERTY THERE ACROSS FROM MCKINLEY. WHERE THE [00:05:02] SCHOOL BUSES TURN IN. AT MCKINLEY, THERE IS A TRAFFIC -- I'M SORRY, A PUBLIC SAFETY OFFICER WHO DIRECTS TRAFFIC AT PEAK PERIODS. THE MAIN FUNCTION OF THIS OFFICER IS TO HELP SCHOOL BUSES ENTER AND EXIT SCHOOL PROPERTY. THE OFFICER ALSO TRIES TO ACCOMMODATE STUDENTS WHO ARE CROSSING BY FOOT. >> ISIL IT -- A SOLUTION PUT FORWARD IS TO PLACE A SECOND SIDEWALK ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE UNIVERSITY WHERE THE STUDENTS ARE CURRENTLY WALKING. ALLOW THE STUDENTS A FIRMER AND SAFER WALKING PATH ON THAT SIDE OF THE STREET. UNTIL THEY CAN GET UP THE HILL TO WHERE THE SCHOOL BUS ENTRANCE IS AT MCKINLEY. AS WE LOOKED AT THIS AS A COUNSEL, AND OTHER SAFETY ISSUES SURFACED THAT RELATED TO THE RESIDENTS ALONG THIS ROUTE. WE LEARNED THAT THE INSTALLATION OF THE REQUESTED SECOND SIDEWALK MAY DAMAGE TREES ALONG THE PROPOSED ROUTE. THE TREES WERE NOT JUST ORNAMENTAL, THEY SERVED AS PROTECTION TO A HOME TWICE IN THE LAST YEAR AND SEVERAL TIMES IN THE RECENT PAST. CARS HAVE LEFT THE ROAD IN FRONT OF THIS HOUSE AT A HIGH RATE OF SPEED AND COULD HAVE CRASHED INTO THE HOME HAD THESE TREES NOT CAUGHT THE VEHICLES. THE COUNCIL REQUESTED A FEW WEEKS BACK FOR THE CITY STAFF TO LOOK INTO POSSIBLE WAYS TO SAVE THESE TREES AND STILL CONSTRUCT THE SECOND SIDEWALK, POSSIBLY, USING ALTERNATE MATERIALS. THE CITY MANAGER HAS INDICATED THAT STAFF IS READY WITH A REPORT AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING HOW TO PROCEED. >> ALL RIGHT, MS. CROUCH? >> YOU ARE GOING TO HEAR FROM TWO DEPARTMENT HEADS, ENGINEERING SERVICES MANAGER ALLISON FRAZIER AS WELL AS DAN BALLARD, OUR PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR, BUT ALSO A LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT AND HAS DONE LONG TIME WORK IN LANDSCAPE AND SUSTAINABILITY FOR THE CITY, I ALSO WANT TO TALK MORE ABOUT THE CIVIL ENGINEERING ASPECTS. I THINK YOU ARE UP FIRST, RIGHT? >> YES. GOOD EVENING. >> GOOD EVENING. I JUST WANT TO MENTION A FEW THINGS AS A FOLLOW-UP TO WHAT COUNCILMAN MOREMAN MENTIONED. WE DID LOOK AT ADJUSTING THE LOCATION OF THE SIDEWALK AND WE WILL TALK A BIT MORE AND OF THE IMPACT OF TREES. ANYTHING WE DO ALONG THIS SECTION, THE INITIAL PROPOSAL I PRESENTED TO YOU, I THINK, IN JUNE WAS A TWO FOOT GREEN SPACE AND A FIVE FOOT SIDEWALK. THE TREES AVERAGE ABOUT 5 1/2 FEET, YOU COULD SHIFT THE SIDEWALK CLOSER TO THE TREES, BUT AGAIN, THAT WOULD IMPACT THE TREES AS WELL. THE COMMENT REGARDING AN ALTERNATE SIDEWALK MATERIAL, WE FOLLOW THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY ACCESSIBILITY GUIDELINES AND THOSE GUIDELINES STIPULATE THAT WALKING SURFACES SHALL BE STABLE, FIRM, AND SLIP RESISTANT. OUR STANDARDS ARE CONCRETE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF OUR PARKS. WE USE CONCRETE OR ASPHALT, OFTEN YOU WILL SEE IN OUR PARKS, DENNY IS PARK WE USE A CRUSHED AGGREGATE MATERIAL OR A FINE STONE, BUT THOSE ARE NOT CLASSIFIED AS SIDEWALKS. I THINK ANYTHING WE DO ALONG THIS PORTION OF EAST UNIVERSITY DRIVE IN FRONT OF THOSE BRADFORD PEARS WOULD FURTHER DAMAGE THE TREES AND DAN CAN TALK ABOUT THE RISK ASSESSMENT HE HAS DONE TO THOSE TREES AND IF WE MOVE CLOSER TO THOSE TREES, WHAT THOSE IMPACTS AND THE ACCELERATION OF THE RISK WOULD BE. >> THANK YOU, I'M SURE WE WILL HAVE SOME QUESTIONS. >> MAYOR, COUNCIL, GOOD EVENING. THERE ARE SEVEN BRADFORD PEARS LOCATED ALONG THE CURVE, AS ALLISON STATED, THEY ARE ALL ROUGHLY 10 1/2 FEET. THEY WERE PLANTED SOMETIME, IT LOOKS LIKE, IN THE MID-90S. WE DON'T HAVE RECORDS EXACTLY OF WHEN THEY WERE PLANTED, THEY TYPICALLY HAVE A LIFESPAN OF 20 TO 30 YEARS. ALL OF THESE TREES ALREADY EXHIBIT SIGNS OF DECLINE, SO ALL OF THE TREES, ALL SEVEN ALREADY HAVE EXHIBITED PATTERNS OF OVERLY MATURE TREES, SO THEY ARE SELF PRUNING, BRANCHES DROPPING FROM SOME, THREE HAVE BEEN PREVIOUSLY HIT BY VEHICLES. ONE IS CURRENTLY SCHEDULED FOR REMOVAL BASED OFF OF OUR RISK ASSESSMENTS AND WE ASKED THE CULTURAL SOCIETY OF THE BOARD [00:10:02] CHORAL STANDARDS . WE WOULD ANTICIPATE REMOVAL OF THE OTHERS IN THE NOT-TOO-DISTANT FUTURE. WITH OR WITHOUT THE SIDEWALK, BASED OFF THE TREE SPECIES AND THE LONGEVITY YOU EXPECT TO GET OUT OF THEM. CONSTRUCTION OF THE SIDEWALK WOULD ABSOLUTELY IMPACT CRITICAL ROOT ZONES, IT WOULD NOT BE GOOD FOR THE TREES. THE SEVEN FEET FROM THE CURB, SEVEN FEET WITH A BEAUTY STRIP. THE GRADING OPERATIONS HAVE DEFINITELY DAMAGED CRITICAL ROUTES ON THE TREES. >> THANK YOU, DAN. >> CERTAINLY. ANYTHING YOU WANT TO FOLLOW UP WITH? >> COUNSEL, ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE FOR EITHER MR. FRAZIER, MS. BALLARD, THE CITY MANAGER? >> I HAVE A COUPLE. WHAT IS THE RIGHT OF WAY FROM THE CURB TO THE OFF THE CURB? WHAT IS OUR RIGHT AWAY THERE? >> WE HAVEN'T DONE A FULL SURVEY, TYPICALLY 10 TO 12 FEET BEHIND THE CURB. >> THESE TREES COULD POTENTIALLY EXIST IN OUR RIGHT AWAY -- OF WAY AS IT STANDS? >> PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SURVEYING, ALL THE DEVICES THEY HAVE USED, EVERYBODY BELIEVES THEY ARE ON THE CITY PROPERTY. >> BASED OFF OF OUR MEASUREMENTS. >> OKAY, IF WE HAVE ALREADY HAD AT LEAST TWO VEHICLES STRIKE THESE TREES AND WE ARE CONSIDERING PLACING A SKY SIDEWALK WHERE WE ARE ENCOURAGING PEDESTRIAN USE, ARE WE NOT INVITING FURTHER DANGEROUS SITUATIONS IF A VEHICLE WERE TO LEAVE THE ROAD AND STRIKE A PEDESTRIAN WHO MIGHT BE ON THE SIDEWALK THAT WE INSTALLED? >> THE CURVATURE OF THIS SECTION IS COMMON TO OTHER SECTIONS OF EAST UNIVERSITY DRIVE, THE THING THAT IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT IS JUST THE TYPOGRAPHY AND THE SPEEDS PEOPLE COME AROUND THAT CURVE. THIS CURB IS NOT UNIQUE TO ANY OF OUR STREETS. >> I WOULD THINK IT IS DRIVER BEHAVIOR, YES. >> THANK YOU. >> WHAT POSSIBILITIES EXIST FOR ANY TYPE OF SIGNAGE THAT CAN REDUCE THE SPEED IN THAT AREA OR PAINTING OF THE SIDE OF THE ROAD OR ANY TYPE OF MORNING THAT THIS SECTION OF EAST UNIVERSITY IS CAUSE FOR EXTRA CONCERN FOR DRIVERS. >> I BELIEVE THERE IS A LIMITED VISIBILITY SIGN JUST OUT OF VIEW OF THIS PICTURE AS YOU APPROACH THE CREST OF THAT HILL. BUT THAT WOULD BE THE TYPICAL SIGNAGE THAT WE DO WHEN THERE IS LIMITED VISIBILITY. RECENTLY ON DRAKE, OVER NEAR SANDERS. >> DO WE HAVE THE OPTION TO ADD MORE OR FURTHER AUGMENT WHAT IS ALREADY THERE? >> IF IT IS NOT CONSISTENT, IT SHOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH THE MANUAL THAT WE FOLLOW THE FEDERAL MANUAL, BUT IT IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING WE CAN LOOK AT. >> THERE ARE THE YELLOW SIGNS THAT HAVE AN ARROW SHOWING CURVE, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT. ONE OF OUR CHALLENGES TOO, WHAT IS OUR RIGHT OF WAY? PEOPLE DON'T LOVE SIGNS IN THEIR YARD, I HAVE BEEN ASKED FOR A LOT OF SOLUTIONS BY THE HOME OWNER. WHO IS NOT THE CURRENT TENANT, BUT BOTH HAVE ASKED AND THEY DON'T WANT A BIG YELLOW SIGN RIGHT IN THEIR FRONT YARD THAT HAS AN ARROW POINTING AT EITHER DIRECTION. WE CAN CERTAINLY LOOK AT ANY ADDITIONAL THINGS, I THINK WE ARE BACK TO A NUMBER OF AREAS WHERE WE STRUGGLED, GOING EXTREMELY FAST, WAY TOO FAST FOR THE CONDITIONS WE HAVE . THESE TEND TO BE, I DON'T KNOW THEY HAVE ALL HAPPENED AT NIGHT, BUT I KNOW TWO OF THEM HAVE. >> SLOW TO 25 THROUGH HERE? >> I THINK SO. DURING THE SCHOOL PEAK HOURS ONLY? >> I WOULD LIKE TO ASK ANOTHER QUESTION ABOUT THE TREES. YOU SAY, AS FAR AS YOU CAN TELL, THEY WERE PLANTED IN THE 90S, THEY HAVE A 30 YEAR LIFE, SO THEY ARE FAST APPROACHING THE END OF THEIR LIFE. IN THE COURSE OF CITY OPERATIONS, WHEN YOU REMOVE A TREE, ARE YOU OBLIGATED TO RETURN A TREE IN A NEW PLANTING? >> WE ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO, NO. >> THE OTHER KEY THING IS, WE WOULD NOT TYPICALLY PLANT A BRADFORD PEAR FOR ANY REASON. >> CORRECT. BRADFORD PEARS ARE [00:15:01] NOT NATIVE AND THEY ARE LISTED ON THE ALABAMA EXOTIC INVASIVE SPECIES. IT IS NOT TYPICALLY A TREE WOULD RECOMMEND PLANTING EITHER. >> REASONABLY, WE COULD EXPECT THAT THOSE TREES WILL BE GONE REGARDLESS OF ANY KIND OF DECISION THAT HAPPENS HERE? BY 2030? >> CORRECT, BASED OFF OF THE TREE SPECIES AND THE AVERAGE LONGEVITY OF THAT TREE, THE VIABILITY OF THOSE TREES, YES. >> WE CAN ALSO ANTICIPATE THERE WILL BE CHILDREN WALKING, TRYING TO GET TO THE HIGH SCHOOL IN 2030? >> CORRECT. >> I WOULD SAY THIS, WE ARE DEALING WITH THIS IN NEIGHBORHOODS ACROSS THE CITY, WE HAVE DEALT WITH IT ON PAYNE STREET AND MANY OTHER PLACES, WE DON'T TEND TO REMOVE TREES UNLESS THEY ARE A HAZARD BECAUSE NEIGHBORHOODS OFTEN DON'T LIKE THAT. IF IT EXCEEDS ITS GENERALLY PRACTICED LIFESPAN, IT DOESN'T MEAN WE ARE GOING TO COME IN AND REMOVE IT UNLESS IT IS A HAZARD. IF WE THINK IT'S GOT ANY DANGER WHATSOEVER, THAT IS DIFFERENT. YOU WOULD DO AN ASSESSMENT RIGHT NOW. >> THAT IS CORRECT, WE PERFORMED RISK-BASED REMOVALS. WHEN WE PERFORM A RISK ASSESSMENT, WE ARE PERFORMING REMOVALS FOR THOSE THAT WEREN'T REMOVALS BASED OFF OF THE RISK WE HAVE EVALUATED. >> THAT EIGHTH TREE, IF YOU COUNT THEM, IT IS ACTUALLY A TELEPHONE POLE AND THE HOUSE THAT WE CAN SEE THERE AND THE HOUSE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE DRIVEWAY, THE RESIDENTS HAVE INDICATED THAT THE TELEPHONE POLE HAS BEEN BROKEN MORE THAN ONCE. I CAN'T PERSONALLY CONFIRM THAT, MAYBE, SOMEBODY ELSE CAN? THAT IS THEIR STORY. JUST FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, THE RESIDENTS ALONG HERE ARE EITHER AMBIVALENT OR VERY FIRMLY AGAINST A SIDEWALK. THE REASON THAT THIS HOUSE WOULD BE AGAINST A SIDEWALK IS WHAT WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT TONIGHT, OTHER RESIDENTS ALONG THIS ROUTE HAVE EXPRESSED SENTIMENT AGAINST THE SIDEWALK AS WELL. FOR DIFFERENT REASONS, BUT I GUESS IN LOOKING FOR SOLUTIONS HERE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS OCCURRED TO ME IS THAT, MAYBE, WE COULD ADVISE ON A SPECIES OF TREE TO BE PLANTED JUST OUTSIDE THE RIGHT OF WAY INTO THIS RESIDENCE AND YARD, JUST AS A SUGGESTION. AND SOME SPECIES THAT WOULD BE SUITABLE AND LONG LIVING, THAT IS JUST ONE POSSIBLE SOLUTION. AND THEN, A SIDEWALK COULD BE CONSTRUCTED, I THINK. IF WE DIDN'T TAKE THE TREES DOWN RIGHT AWAY, POSSIBLY, THE SECOND PLANNING WOULD HAVE ANOTHER -- ENOUGH HEADSTART TO SURVIVE AND DO THE JOB. THAT THESE TREES ARE CURRENTLY DOING. AND THEN, WE CAN BUILD A SIDEWALK. I AM JUST THINKING OUT LOUD WITH THE HELP OF THE REST OF THE COUNCIL AND STAFF. >> ISN'T THERE A SIDEWALK ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET? >> YES, SIR. >> WHERE IS THE CROSSWALK IN RELATION TO THIS AREA? >> THERE IS NO CROSSWALK. >> THERE IS A CROSSWALK AT SANFORD AVENUE. >> HOW FAR IS THAT FROM THIS AREA? >> IT WAS SOMETHING YOU KNEW OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD, I THINK. >> TO GET TO SANFORD IS ABOUT AS FAR AS IT IS TO GET TO MCKINLEY, SO IF YOU GO LEFT AT MCKINLEY, YOU COULD GET TO THE CROSSWALK ON SANFORD ABOUT THE SAME DISTANCE, BUT THEN YOU HAVE TO WALK ALONG SANFORD ON THAT SIDEWALK TO GET TO THE HIGH SCHOOL. SO IF YOU ARE GOING TO COME DOWN OLD MILL, IT IS GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT OF A LARGER WALK. BUT IT IS A BIG CAMPUS, JUST TO GET ACROSS CAMPUS IS A BIG WALK. IT IS NOT A LOT FURTHER TO GO TO SANFORD AND USE THAT CROSSWALK THEN IT IS -- IT IS FURTHER, BUT NOT A TON FOR THERE. AND OF COURSE, IF YOU WALK DOWN SANFORD, THAT WOULD BE SOME KIND OF A COMPROMISE. >> THERE IS AN EXISTING OPTION FOR SOMEONE TO WALK TO SCHOOL? THAT IS PROCEEDED AS A SAFE ROUTE, CORRECT? >> A LITTLE LONGER. CORRECT. >> WELL, OKAY, THEY ARE TEENAGERS. >> THE SANFORD INTERSECTION HAS A PEDESTRIAN SIGNAL, THAT IS WHAT MEGAN IS REFERRING TO. >> IT IS ABOUT 1600 FEET FROM OLD MILL TO SANFORD. >> AS FAR AS THE TREES GO, I HOPE YOU DON'T CUT ME DOWN WHEN I GET OLD. >> I HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION ABOUT IF YOU GO TOWARDS GLEN AVENUE, THE NEXT STREET TO THE [00:20:05] LEFT IS A TURNING CIRCLE, RIGHT? I DON'T KNOW THE NAME OF IT. >> YES, IT'S A CUL-DE-SAC. >> IS A CUL-DE-SAC, I SHOULD SAY. IS THERE ANY OPPORTUNITY FOR PEDESTRIANS TO COME THROUGH ANY KIND OF PROPERTY IN THAT CUL-DE-SAC? IS THERE ANY OPTION TO HAVE AN EASEMENT IN THAT AREA? >> THERE IS SOME WATER THAT IS BACK THERE, THERE MAY BE SOME EASEMENTS. RIGHT NOW, IT IS NOT A PEDESTRIAN WAY, AS A MATTER OF FACT, THE MAYOR AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT, WE JUST VISITED FORT COLLINS, COLORADO, THAT HAD A LOT OF THOSE. I WAS THERE OVER THE WEEKEND AND THEY HAVE A LOT OF THOSE, BUT WE, BY AND LARGE, DO NOT HAVE NEIGHBORHOOD CONNECTIONS FOR PEDESTRIANS ONLY. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE EXPLORED, FOR SURE. NOT SOMETHING WE CAN BE ON THE READY FOR THE NEXT SIX MONTHS, WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WALKING THROUGH. BACKYARDS OF FOLKS, IT IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING WE CAN EXPLORE. >> I JUST SEE THIS AS AN ONGOING ISSUE FOR THE RESIDENTS IN THIS PARTICULAR PORTION OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, THIS IS NOT GOING AWAY ANYTIME SOON, I DON'T THINK. THE PROBLEMS OF GETTING YOUNGER PEOPLE ACROSS THAT STREET, I THINK, IS JUST GOING TO REMAIN. >> ANYONE ELSE? >> THEY ARE ALL HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS, AREN'T THEY? >> YES, THEY ARE ALL HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS. >> THIS IS A DIFFICULT SCENARIO, OBVIOUSLY, WE WANT OUR CHILDREN WALKING TO SCHOOL TO WALK IN THE MOST SAFE MANNER POSSIBLE, BUT TO BUILD A SIDEWALK HERE, YOU ARE GOING TO COMPROMISE THOSE TREES VERY QUICKLY AND THERE IS A YOUNG FAMILY THERE THAT, YOU KNOW, HAS A YOUNG CHILD AND YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF RECENT EXAMPLES, OF COURSE, LEAVING THE ROAD AND IF IT WASN'T FOR THE TREES, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY WOULD END UP. MY GUESS IS, DOWN IN THE FRONT YARD SOMEWHERE. AND THEY ARE VERY, YOU KNOW, I'VE SPOKEN TO THE FATHER OF THE YOUNG MAN WHO LIVES HERE AND THEY ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT WHERE THE TREES GO AND WHAT THAT DOES AS FAR AS COMPROMISING THE SAFETY OF HIS SON AND HIS SON'S WIFE AND HIS GRANDDAUGHTERS, MAYBE GRANDDAUGHTER, THAT LIVE THERE. MIGHT BE GRANDSON, I COULD BE WRONG. THEY ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE TREES BEING COMPROMISED AND THAT BEING OPEN AND CARS ENDING UP IN THEIR FRONT YARD. >> WHAT OPPORTUNITY MIGHT EXIST FOR SOME TYPE OF BEAR BARRIER? BE IT A BOLLARD OR A NUMBER OF BOLLARDS OR SOME KIND OF PROTECTIVE BARRIER? >> I MEAN, WE HAD VETTED AND LOOKED LATELY, WHETHER IT IS WARRANTED OR NOT, THE CITY ENGINEER WOULD NEED TO USE BEAK TO IT, BUT A LIGHT DISCUSSION, IT IS IN THE CITY'S RIGHT-OF-WAY, BUT SMACK DAB IN SOMEBODY'S FRONT YARD. IT IS OUR PROPERTY, BUT THEY MOW THE GRASS VERY NICELY RIGHT THERE. ALLISON, DO YOU WANT TO ADDRESS WHEN WE DO PUT HARR TRAIL TYPE THINGS, BOLLARDS AND/OR CONCRETE WALLS OR JERSEY BARRIERS? >> YES, TYPICALLY THOSE TYPES OF PROTECTIVE MEASURES ARE TO KEEP VEHICLES WITHIN THE ROADWAY LIKE A GUARD WHALE. -- RAIL. BOLLARDS, WE HAVE USED THEM IN A FEW INCH IN SENSES, WE DON'T USUALLY USE THEM IN AN INSTANCE OF PROTECTING VEHICLES FROM LEAVING THE ROADWAY. THAT IS NOT AN APPLICATION WE WOULD RECOMMEND. >> OKAY, ANY QUESTIONS, THOUGHTS FROM THE QUESTIONABLE -- COUNSEL? WE NEED TO MAKE A DECISION, WE CAN EITHER END THIS CONVERSATION NOW, WHICH I THINK IS -- WE WILL CONTINUE TO WATCH THIS SCENARIO AS IT EVOLVES AND LOOK FOR OPPORTUNITIES TO IMPROVE THIS INTERSECTION, AND TAKE NO ACTION OR WE CAN ASK THE CITY MANAGER ON AN UPCOMING AGENDA TO PUT A RESOLUTION THAT WOULD CREATE A NEED AND APPROVAL TO BUILD A NEW SIDEWALK IN THIS AREA. SO IT IS UP TO THE COUNCIL AS TO WHAT WE NEED TO DO HERE. THIS IS PART OF OUR PROCESS, HOW WE HANDLE NEW BUSINESS. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE COUNCIL, WHAT Y'ALL'S WISHES ARE? >> I LIKED BOB'S -- I WOULDN'T NECESSARILY CALL IT A SUGGESTION, BUT THE IDEA OF EXPLORING NEIGHBORHOOD CONNECTORS. SORRY, THROUGH DIFFERENT RIGHT OF WAYS , NOT SURE -- WHAT WOULD THE TIMEFRAME LOOK LIKE ON THAT? [00:25:04] MEGAN, JUST OFF THE TOP -- HAVING AN IDEA OF WHETHER OR NOT THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT IS FEASIBLE IN AN INSTANCE LIKE THIS? >> I LIGHTLY LOOKED, THERE IS DRAIN HIS EASEMENTS, SOME OF THE STAFF MAY BE LOOKING RIGHT NOW, SOME OF IT, I THINK, OFF OF MCKINLEY, ALL THE WAY BACK THROUGH, THERE IS A FEW DIFFERENT THINGS. WE CAN LOOK, YOU KNOW, I LIKE TO LOOK IS JUST A STAFF ANALYSIS, I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF THE PROPERTY AREA OWNERS ARE LISTENING, OUR NEXT STEP WOULD BE, HOW MANY PROPERTIES DOES THAT INVOLVE AND WHAT WOULD THE APPETITE OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS BE TO WORK WITH US ON THAT? WE ARE CERTAINLY HAPPY TO EVALUATE THAT, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE, BASED ON CURRENT WORKLOAD, JUST BASED ON WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT US TO REPRIORITIZE OTHER THINGS YOU'RE WORKING ON TO MOVE THIS TO THE FOREFRONT. IF WE DON'T, THIS WILL BE A SIX PLUS MONTH PROCESS TO GET REAL SOLID INFORMATION TO YOU, NOT INITIAL INFORMATION, BUT IT WILL TAKE US A BIT OF TIME. BECAUSE WE HAVE TO TAKE A HARD LOOK, COULD WE DESIGN THIS? IS IT POSSIBLE? WHAT ABOUT LIGHTING? THERE IS A LOT THAT WOULD GO INTO THAT AND THAT ALONE WOULD HAVE TO GO TO PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS AND ASK THEM TO WORK WITH US, BUT IT IS SOMETHING WE COULD CERTAINLY EXPLORE. >> OKAY, ANYONE ELSE? >> I AM A LITTLE RELUCTANT TO LET THIS GO WITHOUT ANY KIND OF FORWARD DIRECTION. I KNOW I CAN SPEAK FROM A PUBLIC SAFETY POINT OF VIEW AND A NODE -- I KNOW CHIEF THORSON COULD AS WELL, THERE IS NOTHING WORSE THAN AN OUTLINE OF WORK SHOWING UP TO SOMETHING HORRIBLE THAT HAS OCCURRED WITH A PEDESTRIAN VERSUS A VEHICLE, AND I DON'T SEE THIS PROBLEM RESOLVING ITSELF UNLESS WE INTERVENE IN SOME WAY. I AM OPEN TO ANY WAY THAT, YOU KNOW, REDUCES THE RISK OF SOMEBODY IN THE PUBLIC, PARTICULARLY OUR KIDS, GETTING HURT OR WORSE. SO THAT IS KIND OF WHERE I AM WITH THERE. >> WOULD ANYBODY LIKE TO ADD TO WHAT HE SAID? >> I WOULD CONCUR WITH MR. PARSONS ON THAT, I THINK WE NEED TO -- THERE IS A COUPLE OF SAFETY ISSUES HERE, OBVIOUSLY, WE ARE PUTTING A SIDEWALK THERE. IF THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE TO EXPLORE, I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF DOING THAT. I THOUGHT ALL ALONG, IF THERE WAS A WAY TO GET TO MCKINLEY, THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, IN SOME SAFEWAY, I THINK THAT SOLVES A LOT OF PROBLEMS IN REGARDS TO THIS. I THINK WE JUST NEED -- I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF EXPLORING THAT A BIT FURTHER AS WELL. >> I AGREE WITH BOTH OF YOU GUYS, DEPENDING ON OUR DECISION, WE DON'T NEED TO GIVE UP ON THIS, WE NEED TO STAY MINDFUL OF IT AND CONTINUE TO LOOK FOR OPPORTUNITIES. OUR SPECIFIC CHARGE TONIGHT IS, DO WE WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH A -- WITH THE STAFF PUTTING AN ITEM ON OUR FUTURE AGENDA BUT ASKS US TO APPROVE OR NOT APPROVE A SIDEWALK THAT WOULD STRETCH FROM OLD MILL TO MCKINLEY? DO WE WANT TO DO THAT OR DO WE NOT WANT TO DO THAT? >> MR. MAYOR, I'M AFRAID THAT SIDEWALK WOULD BE DANGEROUS TO WALKERS AS LONG AS REDDIT RESIDENTS ALONG HERE. IF WE COME UP WITH A BETTER SOLUTION, I THINK THAT WOULD BE GREAT AND WE SHOULD LOOK FOR ONE, AS HAS BEEN INDICATED. 'THANK YOU, SONNY, ANYONE ELSE? >> I DON'T THINK A SIDEWALK IS THE RIGHT OPTION, IF WE CAN FIND A BETTER SOLUTION HERE. >> I HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION, IF YOU DON'T MIND, MR. MAYOR. TO ALLISON? I DON'T KNOW HOW TO ASK MY QUESTION, SO BEAR WITH ME. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ROAD BARRIERS, MIDDLE BARRIERS THAT HE WILL SEE, YOU KNOW, THE STANDARD 2 1/2 FOOT HIGH BARRIER, PRESSED TIN, PRESSED METAL OF SOME KIND. IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY TO PLACE THAT BEFORE A SIDEWALK? SO THAT IT GOES NEXT TO THE BIKE LANE AND THEN THE SIDEWALK OCCURS? IF THAT MADE ANY SENSE? >> YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY GUARD RAIL, BACK OF CURB AND THEN THE SIDEWALK? >> YES. >> I'M TRYING TO THINK OF A WAY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION THAT MAKES SENSE. THERE IS CRITERIA FOR WARRANTING GUARD [00:30:06] RAIL AND, AGAIN, USING FOR VEHICLES, BUT IT IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING I CAN LOOK AND SEE IF THE RAGS WOULD SUPPORT THAT BEING PRODUCTION, -- PROTECTION, WHICH I THINK IS WHAT YOU ARE ASKING, FOR PEDESTRIANS ON THE BACKSIDE. I WOULD NOT WANT TO GIVE THE FALSE IMPRESSION THAT THAT WOULD DETECT SOMEONE COMPLETELY BECAUSE IT IS MADE TO DEFLECT AND PREVENT, BUT ALSO TO DIRECT CARS BACK INTO THE TRAVEL WAY. I CAN DEFINITELY LOOK IN THE GUIDELINES TO SEE IF THAT IS A PERMISSIBLE USE. >> I WONDER IF WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO EXTEND THIS CONVERSATION BEFORE WE DO MAKE A CON DECISION, EITHER THUMBS-UP OR THUMBS DOWN. >> WOULD YOU BE ASKING US, AT THE NEXT MEETING FOR THE SECOND MEETING IN OCTOBER TO CONTINUE THIS CONVERSATION? IS THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO, BOB? MEGAN, THE PRACTICAL SIDE OF THE STAFF HAVING TO EMPTY THE TOOLBOX AND LOOKING AT SOME OF THESE OPPORTUNITIES, SOME OF THESE IDEAS WE HAVE COME WITH THE SIX MONTHS TO COME BACK AND LOOK AT A CONNECTION TO, MAYBE, THE CUL-DE-SAC . I FORGOT THE NAME OF IT, BUT TO LOOK AT SOME OF THESE OTHER TYPES OF SOLUTIONS, IS THAT SOMETHING REASONABLE? >> WE HAVE GENERALLY FÊTED GUARD RAILS, WE HAVE BEEN ON THIS CONVERSATION FOR NEARLY SIX TO 12 MONTHS NOW. SO WE HAVE LOOKED, ROUGHLY, AT ALL OF THOSE THINGS AND HAVEN'T DETERMINED -- IS THAT OUTSIDE, WILL? I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE. WE HAVEN'T FOUND A SOLUTION, WE ARE HAPPY TO KEEP LOOKING. I WOULDN'T RATHER NOT GIVE YOU A DATE, I WOULD RATHER TAKE A LITTLE BIT OF TIME TO THAT. I DON'T WANT TO SCARE THE PROPERTY OWNERS THAT LIVE OFF OF CARTER STREET AND SOME OTHER THINGS ABOUT SOME NAME DAMAGE DRAINS, I WANT TO BE VERY TRANSPARENT THAT WE WILL TAKE A QUICK LOOK AT THAT. THAT DOESN'T TAKE SIX MONTHS, WHAT WOULD TAKE SIX MONTHS IS TAKING A HARD LOOK AT IT. I WOULD RATHER COME BACK TO YOU IN AN HOUR BEFORE WE SPEND TOO MUCH TIME AND SAY WHAT WE THINK OUR CHALLENGES ARE AND IF THERE IS ANYTHING ELSE WE CAN DO. I THINK THE DECISION BEFORE YOU IS ULTIMATELY GOING TO BE, OTHER THAN WHAT COUNCILMAN PARSONS MENTIONED, IT IS TO BUILD A SIDEWALK OR NOT BUILD A SIDEWALK. I WILL REMIND YOU THAT A SIDEWALK WAS BUILT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET WITH GREAT INTENTION AT THE TIME THAT THE HIGH SCHOOL WAS BUILT. I WILL ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU WILL BE LOOKING THROUGH NINE THROUGH 12 COMING UP, NOT 10 THROUGH 12 AT THIS HIGH SCHOOL, AS A NEW HIGH SCHOOL COMES ON THE LINE TOWARD THE END OF THE DECADE. THAT DOES BUY US A LITTLE BIT OF TIME, WE ALSO NEED TO LOOK AT A GREATER CONNECTION. THE CITY ENGINEER HAS SOME HEARTBURN AT STOPPING THE SIDEWALK JUST AT MCKINLEY, BUT WE WOULD NEED TO WORK WITH HANDILY AND AUBURN UNIVERSITY, IT IS KIND OF A SIDEWALK IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE AND IT WOULDN'T GO BACK TO SANFORD, I MEAN, WE HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT A GREATER PROJECT EITHER BECAUSE THIS ONE CROPPED UP. I DON'T BELIEVE WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT PEDESTRIAN BRIDGES, WE TALKED ABOUT PEDESTRIAN UNDERPASSES. WE HAVE DONE ALL OF THAT, ALLISON WOULD KILL ME, THEY DON'T DRAIN. OVERHEAD IS NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE IT IS RESIDENTIAL RIGHT THERE, WE ARE PRETTY MUCH TALK ABOUT A SIDEWALK OR A SIDEWALK OR SOME SORT OF BACK TRAIL. >> WAS THE SITE DISTANCE, IF YOU REMEMBER THE SITE DISTANCE, HILLSIDE AND MCKINLEY? I DO HAVE SOME SITE DISTANCE CONCERNS, EVEN IF WE LOOK AT ALTERNATE METHODS, THEY STILL HAVE TO CROSS SOMEWHERE. >> CROSSING WITHOUT A CROSSING GUARD IS PROBLEMATIC, YEAH. THIS HADN'T BEEN OUR OTHER REASON TO STOP IT, WE DON'T WANT TO STRIKE A RANDOM CROSSWALK WHERE PEOPLE ARE NOT EXPECTING IT IN LIMITED SITE DISTANCE IS NOT A WISE DECISION FOR WHEN WE DON'T HAVE A CROSSING GUARD THERE. >> IS THERE A CROSSING GUARD THERE NOW? >> THERE IS, IT WOULD GO TO MCKINLEY AND THERE WOULD NOT BE A STRIPED CROSSWALK, YOU WAIT ON THE CROSSING GUARD. >> THEY STILL HAVE THE BUSES IN AND OUT. >> I WILL REMIND YOU THAT THAT WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ANYTHING BUT A BUS ENTRANCE AT THE TIME THAT THE HIGH SCHOOL WAS BUILT. IT WASN'T REALLY SUPPOSED TO BE FOR PEDESTRIANS AND IT WASN'T REALLY SUPPOSED TO BE FOR VEHICLES, IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR BUSES. >> I MIGHT ADD, THAT IS NOT A PUBLIC SAFETY EMPLOYEE AT THAT ENTRANCE. THAT IS PRIVATE SECURITY. HIRED BY THE SCHOOL, YES. >> IS THAT WHAT ALL THE CROSSING GUARDS ARE THAT I SEE IN THE MORNING? >> NO, WE STAFF MANY OF THE SCHOOL CROSSINGS, BUT NOT THAT PARTICULAR ONE. AGAIN, THAT WAS NOT THE POTENTIAL ORIGINAL INTENDED USE. [00:35:05] >> LET ME TRY TO PUT A BOW ON THIS. Y'ALL TELL ME IF I AM WRONG, I AM SENSING THAT THERE IS NOT A MAJORITY THAT WANTS TO MOVE FORWARD WITH ASKING THE STAFF TO PUT A RESOLUTION ON AN UPCOMING AGENDA TO BUILD A SIDEWALK, BUT I BELIEVE THAT WE ALL BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO LOOK FOR OPTIONS TO PROVIDE A SAFE PATHWAY FOR THESE CHILDREN THAT ARE PEDESTRIANS TO GET TO THE SCHOOL, KNOWING THAT IN THE FUTURE, WE ARE HAVING A YOUNGER CLASS OF STUDENTS THAT WILL BE MORE THAN LIKELY, POTENTIALLY MORE WALKERS. GOING TO THAT CAMPUS, BUT IT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR US TO STAY ON TOP OF THAT AND CONTINUE TO LOOK FOR SOLUTIONS. IS THAT * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.