[1. CALL TO ORDER.]
[2. MINUTES.]
[00:00:09]
>>> WE'LL CALL TO ORDER TONIGHT'S COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE OF THE AUBURN CITY COUNCIL MEETING OCTOBER 21ST, 2025.
THE CITY COUNCIL SHOULD HAVE THE MINUTES FROM THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE FROM OCTOBER 7TH.
ANY ADDITIONS OR CORRECTIONS OF THOSE MINUTES, SO MOVED TO
[3. TREE COMMISSION.]
>> MOTION IS SECONDED. ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED. AND THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED.
>> WE HAVE FOUR VACANCIES. THREE TERMS BEGIN NOVEMBER 8, 2025 AND END NOVEMBER 7, 2028. WE HAVE INCUMBENT SETH HUNT, JENNIFER MOORESS. AND DONNA YOUNG.
ALL HAVE SERVED TWO FULL TERMS EACH.
AND THEN 1/2 UNEXPIRED TERM BEGINS ON APPOINTMENT AND ENDS NOVEMBER 7, 2026 AND THAT WAS AN INCUMBENT CONNIE PEREZ WHO RESIGNED.
SO FOR THE FIRST SEAT CURRENTLY HELD BY SETH HUNT I WOULD LIKE TO NOMINATE SALLY HEADLEY.
>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR SALLY HEADLEY.
ANY COMMENTS, THOUGHTS? ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE.
OH, I'M SORRY. I APOLOGIZE, CONNIE.
>> SO ALL OF THEM, THEY SERVED TWO TERMS. THOSE ARE THE ONLY TERMS THEY
CAN SERVE? >> WELL, WE -- NOT NECESSARILY.
BUT THEY DID NOT -- NONE OF THESE INDIVIDUALS APPLIED.
>> THAT'S OKAY. >> ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND.
ALL IN FAVOR OF SALLY HEADLEY PLEASE SAY AYE.
>> FOR THE SECOND VACANCY FOR JENNIFER MORASS.
OR I'M NOT SAYING THAT CORRECTLY I'M SURE.
I WOULD LIKE TO NOMINATE DAN NORTON.
>> ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR DAN NORTON. ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? I'VE KNOWN DAN FOR A LONG TIME.
HE JUST RETIRED AS ATHLETIC DIRECTOR AT AUBURN CITY SCHOOLS AND HE IS ACTUALLY REALLY EXCITED ABOUT POTENTIALLY SERVING ON THE TREE COMMISSION. ALL RIGHT.
ALL IN FAVOR OF DAN NORTON PLEASE SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED? AND THAT MOTION CARRIES.
>> ALL RIGHT. THE THIRD VACANCY BY DONNA YOUNG I WOULD LIKE TO NOMINATE NICHOLAS MAY.
>> WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND FOR NICHOLAS MAY.
ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? ALL RIGHT. ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE.
ANY OPPOSED. AND THAT MOTION CARRIES.
>> THEN FOR THE ONE UNEXPIRED TERM THAT BEGINS IMMEDIATELY AND ENDS NOVEMBER 7, 2026 I WOULD LIKE TO NOMINATE TOSHIRO
>> MOTION AND SECOND FOR TASHIRA JACKSON. ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE. ANY OPPOSED?
[4. EDUCATIONAL BUILDING AUTHORITY.]
THAT MOTION CARRIES. WE'LL CONFIRM ALL FOUR OF THESE LATER ON IN THE AGENDA. EDUCATIONAL BUILDING AUTHORITY.>> YES, SIR. WE HAVE ONE VACANCY.
TERM BEGINS NOVEMBER 12TH, 2025 AND ENDS NOVEMBER 11TH, 2031. INCUMBENT CHARLES PICKENS SERVED TWO FULL TERMS. I WOULD LIKE TO NOMINATE CINDY MOSLEY.
>> HAVE A MOTION FOR CINDY MOSLEY.
I'LL SECOND THAT. ANY COMMENTS OR THOUGHTS? ALL RIGHT.
ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE. >> AYE.
[5. QUESTIONS ON THE AGENDA.]
>> ANY OPPOSED? AND THAT MOTION CONSIDERS.
AND WE'LL CONFIRM THAT LATER ON IN THE AGENDA.
THANK YOU. MAYOR PRO TEM WITTEN.
ANY QUESTIONS ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA FOR THE CITY MANAGER?
>> WEWE HAVE OUR WORK SESSION LAST MONDAY ON THE 13TH FOR THE FARMVILLE LAND USE CONVERSATION AND I WAS WONDERING IF THE COUNCIL WOULD ENTERTAIN SUSPENDING THE RULES SO THAT WE CAN REMAND BACK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION THE FARMVILLE FUTURE LAND USE PIECE FOR THEM TO REVIEW ATAT NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING.
>> ALL RIGHT. CITY MANAGER, WHAT WOULD BE THE PROTOCOL FOR HANDLING THAT?
>> IN THE PROTOCOL GENERALLY SPEAKING IS IF FIVE MEMBERS ARE OKAY WITH THAT YOU DON'T NEED AN OFFICIAL RESOLUTION OR SOMETHING, BUT THERE DOES NEED TO BE FIVE MEMBERS. AND THE GOAL OF REMANDING IT BACK WAS -- IS THE LAND USE PLAN WAS NOT AMENDED AT THE TIME. THE ANNEXATION REQUEST WAS WITHDRAWN.
AND SO THEREFORE, IT WAS ACTUALLY NOT AMENDED.
AND WHILE THE LAND USE PLAN HAD ALSO BEEN MODIFIED THAT NIGHT BECAUSE OF SOME THINGS WITH IT IT IS MORE THAN AN ORDER. I'VE CHECKED WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY TO REMAND IT TO PLANNING COMMISSION AND LEGALLY THEY DO NEED TO REREVIEW IT.
I'VE ALSO SPOKEN WITH THE PLANNING DIRECTOR ABOUT THIS POSSIBILITY, IT CAN GET ON THIS CURRENT NOVEMBER 13TH AGENDA BECAUSE STAFF ALREADY HAS ALL THE INFORMATION AND CAN REPRESENT IT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, WHO CAN LOOK AT IT
[00:05:01]
AGAIN. THEY HAD PREVIOUSLY BEEN INTERESTED IN SEEING THIS LAND USE CHANGE, BUT IT DIDN'T END UP CHANGING. AND SO WE'LL SEE WHAT THEY SAY THIS TIME, THIS GO- ROUND, IF THE COUNCIL CHOOSES TO REMTHEM TO REVIEW. >> THE ITEMS THAT ARE ON OUR AGENDA TONIGHT, WE WILL HANDLE THOSE IN WHAT --
>> IF YOU CHOOSE DURING THIS COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE AND THE MAJORITY TO REMAND IT, THEN WE WILL NEED AN OFFICIAL ACTION TO POSTPONE THOSE ITEMS TO THE NOVEMBER 18TH MEETING.
ASSUMING THAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION DOESN'T ACT TON AT THEIR NOVEMBER 13TH MEETING WHICH WE WOULD EXPECT THAT THEY WOULD.
>> ANY QUESTIONS OR THOUGHTS FROM ANY OF THE OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS÷÷ ABOUT MISS WITTEN'S --
>> FOR THE RECORD WHICH RULE ARE WE SUSPENDING?
>> THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE RULE. IS THAT THE RIGHT ONE?
>> YEAH, IT'S JUST MORE THAT NORMALLY IF YOU GUYS WANT AN ACTION OR SOMETHING DONE YOU USUALLY ASK AT THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE PRIOR BUT IN THIS INSTANCE YOU HAD A WORK SESSION TO DISCUSS THIS WHOLE THING AND IF YOU'RE GOOD I THINK IT'S JUST INDULGING THAT YOU'RE OKAY SUSPENDING THAT RULE AND ACTING TONIGHT.
>> OKAY. THANKS. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR THOUGHTS? IS THE COUNCIL GOOD WITH REMANDING THIS BACK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION?
>> SO BOTH ITEMS WOULD COME BACK ON THE 17TH AGENDA, THE UPDATED LAND USE PLAN PLUS THESE ITEMS THAT ARE COMING BEFORE US?
>> EVERYTHING THAT WOULD TRACK WITH IT THAT NIGHT IF YOU POSTPONE IT ACCORDINGLY.
>> TO BE THE 18TH OF NOVEMBER YOU WOULD SEE THAT.
>> DO I NEED TO TAKE A HAND VOTE OR ANYTHING
ON THIS? >> I THINK JUST ALL THOSE IN FAVOR AYE AND WHATEVER NONO --
>> ALL IN FAVOR OF PURSUING MISS WITTEN'S REQUEST TO REMAND THIS BACK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION PLEASE SAY AYE. ALL RIGHT.
WE'LL MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT. I HAVE SOMETHING I WANTED TO BRING TO THE COUNCIL. AT THAT WORK SESSION A DISCUSSION CAME FORWARD THAT INVOLVED THE STAFF COMMUNICATING SOME I WOULD CALL THOSE CONCERNS ABOUT SOME INFRASTRUCTURE TRAFFIC AND STORMWATER PARTICULARLY ON THE WEST SIDE OF DOWNTOWN. THEIR CONCERN AS WE HEARD IS THAT DUE TO THE FAST PACE OF GROWTH OVER THERE THAT THEY'RE -- THAT MAYBE IT'S OUTPACING SOME OF OUR INFRASTRUCTURE BUILDOUT.
ALL OF US INCLUDING MYSELF HAVE RECEIVED COMPLAINTS ABOUT CERTAINLY TRAFFIC IN DOWNTOWN AND IN PARTICULAR GLEN AVENUE.
BUT WE HEARD SOME CONCERNS FROM THE STAFF, THE COUNCIL WAS ABLE TO ASK SOME QUESTIONS, AND THIS IS OUR FIRST MEETING SINCE THEN AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NO -- THAT THE COUNCIL IS EITHER READY TO TAKE SOME STEPS OR WHERE WE MIGHT BE TONIGHT. SO CITY MANAGER, IF YOU COULD FIND OF MAYBE SUMMARIZE SOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS THAT WERE BROUGHT FORWARD FROM THE STAFF AT THAT WORK SESSION JUST TO REMIND US OF THE CONCERNS THAT Y'ALL SHARED THAT NIGHT.
>> WELL, GENERALLY SPEAKING, AS YOU INDICATED, MAYOR, WE HEAR FROM CITIZENS ON THE REGULAR AS YOU DO ABOUT TRAFFIC IN THE DOWNTOWN VICINITY. TWO RECENT DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS THAT YOU HAVE APPROVED, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU HEARD IS THE MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES FOR TRAFFIC STUDIES WE ARE LEFT TO MINOR ADJUSTMENTS TO SIGNAL TIMING AND NOT A LOT ELSE. THE OTHER CHOICES OUT THERE TEND TO BE ROAD WIDENINGINGS, ADDING LANES. IT'S A LITTLE MORE DIFFICULT IN OUR URBAN AREAS, WIPING OUT EXISTING BUILDINGS AND THINGS ARE REALLY NOT AN OPTION. SO WE'RE STARTING TO SEE SOME CHANGES FROM AN INFRASTRUCTURE STANDPOINT THAT WE'VE NOT SEEN BEFORE. IT IS OUR JOB TO OBVIOUSLY INFORM THE CITY COUNCIL AND WE'RE SEEING DATA THAT WE DON'T NORMALLY SEE IN CERTAIN AREAS OF TOWN ESPECIALLY COMBINED WITH CONCERNS BEING RAISED.
IN ADDITION, WE DO HAVE SOME STORMWATER CHALLENGES HERE AND THERE.
I'LL BE VERY CLEAR, THOUGH, THAT EVERY PROJECT THAT IS BEING APPROVED ALONG THE WAY IS MEETING CRITERIA THAT'S CURRENTLY ON THE BOOKS.
WE'RE DOING THAT ON A CASE-BY- CASE BASIS.
BUT WE ARE DEFINITELY CHALLENGED BY THE FACT THAT WE'RE STARTING TO GET TO A TRAFFIC STANDSTILL WITH SOMESOME THINGS LIMITED OPTIONS UNDER OUR CURRENT UMBRELLA TO MITIGATE. OUR CITY MANAGER HAS SOME LATITUDE IN THAT REALM AND USES THAT TO THE BEST OF HER ABILITY, BUT WE ARE ALSO EMBARKING IN THIS FISCAL YEAR ON BOTH A CITYWIDE TRAFFIC STUDY, IT'S TIME FOR THAT UPDATE AND WE DO STILL OWE YOU A WORK SESSION ABOUT THE CURRENT ONE, AND WE'RE ALSO EMBARKING ON MAJOR CHANGES TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
SO ALL OF THIS IS KIND OF CULMINATING.
AND WHEN I SAY MAJOR CHANGES IT MEANS WE'VE TRIED -- OR TRYING AND SEEKING OUT WITH OUROUR PLANNING DIRECTOR TO MAKE THE ORDINANCE MORE UNDERSTANDABLE AND USABLE FOR PEOPLE. I DIDN'T SAY THAT IT'S GOING TO BE CRAZY RESTRICTIVE OR A LOT IS CHANGING. IT NEEDS TO BE MORE UNDERSTANDABLE. BUT IT IS A GOOD TIME TO
[00:10:03]
ALSO LOOK AT REGULATORY ITEMS WE'VE RUN INTO WITH RECENT DEVELOPMENTS. A NUMBER OF VERY INTERESTING DIALOGUE WITH PRIVATE SECTOR INDIVIDUALS ABOUT HOW THEY THINK THAT THEY GET TO INTERPRET THE ZONING ORDINANCE, WHICH LEGALLY THEY DO NOT. THAT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PLANNING DIRECTOR AND SOME THINGS THAT NEED TO BE CLARIFIED ABOUT EVERYTHING FROM HOW HEIGHT IS AVERAGED TO SOME OTHER ITEMS GOING ON. SO THERE'S A FEWFEW BREWING PARTICULARLY IN THE URBAN CORE AND URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD WEST THAT ARE A LITTLE BIT CHALLENGING AT THE MOMENT.HOWEVER, THE COUNCIL HAS THE RIGHT TO INVOKE SOME SORT OF FORMAL LEGAL PAUSE WHICH COMES IN THE FORM OF AN ORDINANCE OR STAFF CAN CONTINUE DOING WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE ON THESE THINGS WITHOUT PROJECTS PAUSING.
AND THAT MEANS IF YOU WERE TO PROCEED YOU'D BE PROCEEDING WITH SOME FORM OF MORATORIUM.
THAT IS AN OPTION. I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT'S SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO DO.
THAT IS A TOOL IN THE TOOLBOX THAT DOESN'T ALLOW DEVELOPMENT AS DEFINED BY THE MORATORIUM UNTIL SOME STUDIES ARE DONE ANDAND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION COMES TO LIGHT. WE HAVE INVOKED THAT BEFORE.
AND AGAIN, IT'S NOT A RECOMMENDATION OF THE STAFF. IT IS AN AWARENESS THAT THESE ARE THE TOOLS THAT YOU HAVE. THERE ARE ALWAYS PROJECTS THAT ARE CONSIDERING BUILDING IN OUR COMMUNITY. WE'RE FORTUNATE FOR THAT.
BUT WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS GET THE BEST PROJECTS POSSIBLE. WE DID SAY WE WANTED DENSITY IN THIS AREA, PARTICULARLY URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD WEST.
WE'RE GETTING THAT. BUT IF YOU'VE NOTICED, WHEN YOU DRIVE DOWN GLEN AVENUE WE HAVE A MILLION AND ONE CROSSWALKS THAT ARE QUITE ROBUST WITH PEOPLE IN THEM.
MAGNOLIA'S HARD TO GET ACROSS. WE'RE MAKING ADJUSTMENTS.
BUT SOME OF THESE THINGS TAKE TIME. WE HAVE TO MOVE CARS AND PEOPLE.
STREETS DON'T GO THROUGH CAMPUS ANYMORE. THEY'RE JUST THINGS TO BE LOOKED AT. OUR WATER AND SEWER IS DOING FAIRLY WELL. WE STUDY THOSE UNILATERALLY AND WE ALSO STUDY THEM ON A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS.
BUT WE CERTAINLY DIDN'T MODEL YEARS AGO THAT ALL THE DENSITY COULD HAPPEN AT ONCE IN SPECIFIC AREAS AND WHAT HAVE YOU, AND IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO TAKE A SECOND LOOK.
BUT ANY PROJECT THAT HAS BEEN APPROVED ABSOLUTELY WE HAVE ADEQUATE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR BUT IN THE EYES OF OUR CITIZENS I'M NOT SURE THAT THEY THAT WE HAVE ADEQUATE TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE FOR MUCH OF ANYTHING, PARTICULARLY IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA. THERE ARE NOT A LOT OF MAJOR TOOLS IN THE TOOLBOX TO DEAL WITH ASPECTS OF THAT, BUT THERE ARE MORE ABOUT WIDER SIDEWALKS, BIKE LANES, DIFFERENT SIGNAL TECHNOLOGIES AND SOMETIMES IT WOULD DO US SOME GOOD TO HAVE A LITTLE TIME TO REVIEW THOSE. BUT IT'S UP TO THE COUNCIL.
>> DOES ANYBODY FROM THE COUNCIL HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR THOUGHTS? BASED ON EITHER THE WORK SESSION OR MY COMMENTS OR THE CITY MANAGER'S COMMENTS? ANY THOUGHTS?
>> I WOULD WELCOME THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE STAFF TO REVIEW THESE OPTIONS THAT YOUYOU OF AND MAKE A PRESENTATION TO US OR SOME SUGGESTIONS TO US WHEN IT COMES TO SOME OF THESE PROJECTS. THIS IS -- IT SHOULD NOT BE A SURPRISE. EIGHT YEARS AGO WE HAD THE KEEP AUBURN LOVELY BUNCH THAT WE TRIED TO LIMIT SOME DEVELOPMENT.
THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A TRAFFIC STANDSTILL AND THAT WE'RE APPROACHING STORMWATER DISPERSION SHOULD NOT BE A SURPRISE TO ANYBODY. SO I WOULD THINK THAT IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR US TO ASK THE STAFF TO STUDY IT AND COME BACK TO US WITH SOME SUGGESTIONS.
>> IF THE STAFF STUDIES IT, I THINK THE QUESTION IS IF THEY STUDY IT WHILE WE ROCK ALONG WITH NO MORATORIUM OR DO WE ENTERTAIN A MORATORIUM WHILE THEY STUDY IT? IS THAT THE -- KIND OF THE TWO --
>> THAT'S CORRECT. AND WE WILL GLADLY GO IN EITHER DIRECTION. I THINK THE CHALLENGE IS THAT A MORATORIUM SOMETIMES IS A BIG SCARY WORD FOR PEOPLE BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY IT'S A TOOL THAT YOU HAVE FROM A HEALTH SAFETY WELFARE PERSPECTIVE, AND I'LL BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THAT.
AND OUR CITY ATTORNEY'S HERE AND CAN SPEAK TO THAT.
TRAFFIC IS A HEALTH SAFETY WELFARE CONCERN. AND BY NO MEANS DOES THIS MEAN IF YOU WERE TO TAKE A PAUSE VIA MORATORIUM THAT YOU'RE STOPPING DEVELOPMENT IN THESE AREAS AT STOPPING THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT MULTIUNIT DEVELOPMENT PARTICULARLY ALONG PRIVATE DORMITORY REALMS. THE HIGHEST DENSITY THINGS. THAT'S NOT BEEN CLEARLY DEFINED YET. YES DO HAVE THE OPTION OF BRINGING A DRAFT ORDINANCE TO YOU FOR YOUR REVIEW WHICH YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO ACT ON. BUT I CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO BRING A DRAFT ORDINANCE FORWARD FOR SOMETHING LIKE A MORATORIUM IF THAT'S NOT WHAT THE COUNCIL WANTS. IF THEY JUST WANT US TO PROCEED WITH STUDYING THAT'S WHAT WE'LL
DO. >> OTHER QUESTIONS, THOUGHTS,
MAX? >> THIS ORDINANCE -- LIKE YOU WERE JUST SAYING IT COULD BE RESTRICTED TO SOME PRETTY SPECIFIC TYPES OF --
ABSOLUTELY. >> AND THEN TIMINGWISETIMINGWISE IT STOP AND END AT OUR
DISCRETION -- >> TIMINGWISE WE'D SET IT AT,
[00:15:01]
SAY, SIX MONTHS INITIALLY. THAT'S PRETTY COMMON.COULD BE EXTENDED. THE COUNCIL ALSO HAS THE ABILITY IF YOU WERE TO ADOPT ONE TO BRING FORWARD AND SAY WE ACTUALLY WANT TO STOP IT.
>> THAT'S IN THE HANDS OF THE COUNCIL. YOU CAN REPEAL AN ORDINANCE AT ANY TIME. BUT IT DOES GIVE US THE ABILITY TO STUDY WITH CERTAIN THINGS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE OUT THERE BEFORE YOU AND YOU KNOW IT'S NOT SOMETHING WE TAKE LIKELY AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING I'M ADVOCATING FOR. IT'S OUR JOB TO INFORM THE CITY COUNCIL WHEN THINGS GET TO A CERTAIN POINT THAT WE FEEL YOU NEED TO KNOW. AND WHILE WE CAN HANDLE EVERYTHING WE'VE GOT WE'RE ALSO GETTING BIG DISSATISFACTION AMONG OUR CITIZENS, EMPLOYEES AT THE UNIVERSITY AND SO ON, AND WE REALLY DO WANT STUDENTS TO LIVE WHERE IT'S WALKABLE. BUT I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THE BEST REGULATORY FRAMEWORK IN PLACE FROM A HEALTH SAFETY WELFARE PERSPECTIVE TO DO THAT.
>> OKAY. QUESTIONS FROM THE COUNCIL? THOUGHTS? SO WE HAVE SOME OPTIONS HERE. AS MEGAN MENTIONED, THE STAFF CAN PUT TOGETHER AN ORDINANCE THAT WE CAN CONSIDER IN TWO WEEKS. WE DO NOT HAVE TO VOTE ON THE ORDINANCE THAT NIGHT.
WE CAN READ IT. WE CAN STUDY IT.
WE CAN DENY UNANIMOUS CONSENT. WE CAN PUT IT OFF.
OR WE COULD -- OR WE COULD DO, YOU KNOW -- WE COULD JUST NOT TAKE ANY ACTION RELATED TO AN ORDINANCE THAT WOULD SLOW DOWN PROGRESS AND LET THE STAFF WORK ON SOME OF THESE STUDIES AND UNDERSTAND THAT DEVELOPMENT WOULD CONTINUE. SO THOSE ARE A COUPLE OF CHOICES WE HAVE. AND IT TAKES FIVE OF US TO MOVE FORWARD ON SOMETHING. SO I JUST -- I'M NOT SURE WHERE EVERYBODY IS TONIGHT BUT I WANTED TO BRING THIS FORWARD BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T HAD A MEETING TO TALK ABOUT THIS SINCE OUR LAST WORK SESSION.
>> I DON'T KNOW THAT I'M READY TO VOTE FOR A MORATORIUM.
I THINK WE'VE GOT TO MAKE IT FAIR TOTO EVERYBODY.
IT'S JUST -- IT'S COME OUT OF NOWHERE FOR ME. I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT IT EIGHT YEARS AGO BUT ALL OF A SUDDEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SHUTTING DOWN AND NOT BUILDING ANYTHING DOWNTOWN BECAUSE OF THE TRAFFIC. I DON'T LIKE SURPRISES.
AND THIS WAS CERTAINLY A SURPRISE TO ME FROM THE GET-GO. SO YOU KNOW, I WOULD CERTAINLY HOPE WE DON'T HAVE SOME ULTERIOR MOTIVE OF SOMEBODY PUSHING SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T NEED TO BE PUSHED. I THINK IT OUGHT TO BE FAIR TO EVERYBODY, AND I DON'T WANT TO -- WE APPROVED SO MANY THINGS DOWN THERE I DON'T THINK IT'S -- I JUST -- I REALLY WANT TO HEAR MORE ABOUT IT. AND I'M NOT READY TO VOTE FOR A MORATORIUM AT THIS POINT. BUT I'M ONLY ONE PERSON.
>> WHEN YOU SAY HEAR MORE ABOUT IT, CHIEF, WOULD THAT BE --
>> I WANT TO KNOW WHY ALL OF A SUDDEN WE THINK -- I KNOW WE'VE GOT BAD TRAFFIC PROBLEMS DOWNTOWN. WE HAD BAD PROBLEMS DOWNTOWN FOR TRAFFIC FOR ABOUT 40 YEARS NOW.
BUT WHY ARE WE ALL OF A SUDDEN -- DOING SOME DRASTIC CHANGES.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT. I MIGHT BE FOR A MORATORIUM IF I HAVE SOMETHING TO BASE IT ON, MORE IMPORTANT.
BUT I'M NOT PREPARED IN TWO WEEKS TO COME BACK HERE TO MEET AND VOTE TO SHUT SHUT DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT. I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU -- I'M NOT AN ENGINEER, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S MUCH YOU CAN DO TO HELP DOWNTOWN TRAFFIC AT THIS POINT.
HORSE IS KIND OF OUT OF THE BARN ON THAT
ONE. >> SPEAKING OF THAT, MEGAN, IS THERE ANYTHING OUR CITY ENGINEER WOULD OFFER TO THEIR OBSERVATIONS ON WHAT'S GOING ON
RELATED TO TRAFFIC AND -- >> I'LL HAVE HER SPEAK TO IT.
I THINK TO CHIEF'S POINT NOBODY'S SAYING IT'S GOING TO FIX IT. IT'S HOW DO YOU MITIGATE. THERE'S A DIFFERENCE. AND THE DIFFERENCE LATELY IS WE HAVE TWO TRAFFIC STUDIES FOR TWO VERY DENSE DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE BEGINNING TO SAY THE ONLY TOOL THAT YOU HAVE SHORT OF WIPING OUT BUILDINGS AND WIDENING ROADS IS SIGNAL TIMING.
AND SO THE GOAL HERE IS TO BEGIN TO LOOK AT OPTIONS BEYOND SIGNAL TIMING. THAT'S ONE OF THEM.
AND TECHNOLOGY ITEMS THAT CAN BE OUR REGULATORY FRAMEWORK THAT REQUIRE PEOPLE TO SAY I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS IS AN OPTION RIGHT NOW BUT THEY'LL HAVE TO DONATE MORE TO A SIDEWALK FUND WHERE WE CAN WIDEN MORE SIDEWALKS, BUILD MORE BIKE LANES, WHATEVER IT IS. THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE STUDIED. TRAFFIC'S NOT THE ONLY THING, BUT IT'S ONE OF THE THINGS.
>> YEAH, I THINK MEGAN HITS ON A GOOD POINT, THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT MORE OPTIONS THAN JUST THE TRAFFIC DEFICIENCIES.
WE ARE AT MOST OF THE INTERSECTIONS DOWNTOWN DURING PEAK PERIODS, WE'RE AT MAXIMUM -- YOU KNOW, WE'RE FAILING LEVELS OF SERVICE. THAT'S KIND OF OUR MEASURE AND THRESHOLD IS LEVEL OF SERVICE. AND WE HAVE A LOT OF THOSE THAT ARE FAILING. AND THE MITIGATIONS FOR THOSE IS ADDITIONAL LANES AND THINGS. WE ARE TWEAKING SIGNAL TIMINGS AS OFTEN AS WE CAN AND AS MUCH AS WE CAN, BUT THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH WE CAN DO WITH THE EXISTING AMOUNT OF ASPHALT THAT WE HAVE. SO AGAIN, TO THE POINT OF DO WE START TRYING TO TAKE DOWN
[00:20:01]
BUILDINGS TO BUILD -- TO WIDEN ROADS, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT REALLY AN OPTION. WHAT ADDITIONAL -- TO YOUR -- AND CHIEF DAWSON, YOU MENTIONED WE'VE HAD PROBLEMS FOR 40 YEARS. WE'VE DONE A LOT IN THAT 40 YEARS. WE'VE ADDED COORDINATED SIGNAL SYSTEMS. WE'VE ADDED A LOT OF THINGS TO OUR SIGNALS TO MAKE THEM SMARTER AND MORE EFFICIENT.BUT WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF THOSE TECHNOLOGIES THAT WE CAN DO AS WELL. SO IT'S JUST GIVING US AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOME STUDIES, SOME BROAD STUDIES WITH THIS COMPREHENSIVE TRAFFIC STUDY TO SEE WHAT OTHER EFFORTS WE MIGHT COULD MAKE.
>> AND TO CHIEF'S POINT WE'RE GOING TO BE DOING THOSE ANYWAY AS PART OF THIS TRAFFIC STUDY.
IT'S WHETHER OR NOT PROJECTS CONTINUE DURING THAT TIME FRAME.
>> I'M FOR THAT. AND I THINK WE DO NEED TO STUDY IT. THERE'S A LOT MORE AREAS NEED STUDYING BESIDES DOWNTOWN. NORTH DONAHUE
DRIVE IS -- >> YEAH, THEY'RE ALL GOING TO BE STUDIED AS PART OF THE CITYWIDE STUDY.
>> I'M JUST AN EX-RETIRED POLICE OFFICER.
I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW DONAHUE DRIVE NEEDS TO BE FOUR LANES ALL THE WAY OUT TO 72.
AND INTERSECTION OF 72 AND DONAHUE NEEDS TO BE FIXED. THE INTERSECTION OF LONGLEAF AND SOUTH COLLEGE NEEDS TO BE FIXED. NO RIGHT-HAND TURN LANE. BACKS TRAFFIC UP. I MEAN, WE'VE GOT A LOT OF -- WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE, WE'VE GOT A LOT OF INFRASTRUCTURE WE NEED TO CATCH UP ON AROUND THE WHOLE CITY.
OUGHT TO HAVE A TURN LANE THE WHOLE WAY AROUND.
I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S NOBODY'S FAULT. BUT IT'S THERE NOW, THE WHOLE CITY NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT.
>> WHEN IS THIS TRAFFIC STUDY GOING TO BE INITIATED OR COMPLETED OR WHATEVER?
>> IT WAS APPROVED FOR THIS PHYSICAL YEAR.
SO WE ARE TALKING WITH CONSULTANTS NOW TO TRY TO GET A SCOPE TOGETHER.
SO WE SHOULD HAVE THAT ON THE NEXT -- ON THE COUNCIL AGENDA WITHIN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS.
>> AND DO WE HAVE SOME KIND OF A SCORECARD ON HOW WE IMPLEMENTED RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE LAST CITYWIDE TRAFFIC STUDY?
>> AS FAR AS A SCORECARD I'M NOT SURE --
>> WHATEVER RECOMMENDATIONS WERE MADE, HAVE WE IMPLEMENTED
THEM? >> NOT ALL OF THEM, NO, SIR.
WE HAVE IMPLEMENTED PROBABLY AROUND HALF OF THEM.
I FORGET THE NUMBER. I'VE DONE SOME --
>> IT'S THE ONE WE NEED TO HAVE THE WORK SESSION ABOUT IT. AT THE END OF THE DAY WITH IMPLEMENTATION THERE'S SOME IMPLEMENTATION THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE AT TIMES.
LIKE THERE MAY BE A RIGHT TURN LANE THAT'S NEEDED.
EVERYBODY CAN AGREE ON THAT. BUT WE HAVE A HALF MILLION DOLLARS IN FIBEROPTIC UTILITIES THAT HAVE TO BE MOVED TO DO THAT, SO THAT BECOMES A LESSER PRIORITY WHILE WE DO OTHER THINGS.
AND THERE ARE SOME THINGS LIKE ONE OF THE SUGGESTIONS IN THE STUDY BE I DIDN'T AGREE WITH IT AT THE TIME. I WAS NOT IN THIS SEAT AT THE TIME. IS PUTTING DEANROAD ON A ROAD DIET TO MAKE IT TWO LANES IN EACH DIRECTION WITH A CENTER TURN LANE FROM THATCH.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA BUT IT'S IN THERE.
SOMETIMES THERE ARE GOOD IDEAS THAT DON'T STICK FOR OTHER PRACTICAL REASONS.
BRANDY, HOW LONG WILL THE STUDY
TAKE? >> SHOULD TAKE ABOUT A YEAR.
>> BEFORE YOU SEE RECOMMENDATIONS OFF OF THAT.
THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAY. WE'RE GOING TO BE WORKING -- WE'RE BRINGING FORWARD IN THE NEXT SEVERAL MONTHS A CONSULTANT FOR THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
>> SO WHAT WOULD -- IF WE PROPOSED A MORATORIUM FOR A SIX-MONTH PERIOD AND WE WOULD NOT HAVE RESULTS OR ANSWERS TO THESE QUESTIONS --
>> WE CAN WRITE THE SCOPE DIFFERENTLY TO FOCUS ON A SPECIFIC AREA FIRST AND GET THOSE RESULTS FIRST BEFORE THE REST OF THE CITY. THERE ARE WAYS TO DO THAT.
THAT'S AT THE PLEASURE OF THE COUNCIL.
IF YOU SAID YOU HAD SIX MONTHS TO GET SOME STUFF TO US, THEN WE'RE GOING TO MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION AS RAPIDLY AS POSSIBLE.
DEPENDS ON WHAT YOUR LENS IS OR IS NOT.
>> SO WE COULD GET ANSWERS TO THOSE QUESTIONS IN SIXSIX OR POSSIBLY -- IS THERE AN EXPEDITED TIMELINE ON THAT? WHAT IS --
>> AGAIN, THE YEAR IS A FORMAL REPORT. BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY HAVE ANALYSES, NUMBERS CRUNCHED. THE GOAL WOULD BE TO GET TRAFFIC DATA IN THE SPRING AND THEN TO BE ABLE TO START CRUNCHING THOSE NUMBERS. SO YEAH, WE COULD DEFINITELY FOR CERTAIN AREAS OF TOWN HAVE RESULTS THAT WE COULD PRESENT IN SIX MONTHS.
>> AND WE CAN DO A SEPARATE SCOPE FOR THIS AREA IF THAT'S WHAT WE NEEDED TO DO AND SERMT THE TWO.
THERE'S LOTS OF OPTIONS THERE. DEPENDS ON WHAT YOUR LENS
IS. >> AND HOW WOULD THE -- I'M SORRY.
>> HOW WOULD THE ZONING AMENDMENTS TRACK WITH THAT TIME FRAME?
>> SO I WOULD SAY I THINKTHINK ZONING -- A COMPREHENSIVE ZONING UPDATE PROBABLY IS ABOUT I THINK ANYWHERE 18 TO 30 MONTHS.
SO WE'RE REALLY KIND OF LOOKING AT 2, 2 1/2 YEARS IN TOTAL. BUT KIND OF LIKE THE CITY MANAGER TALKS ABOUT THAT WE COULD NARROW DOWN THE SCOPE AND KIND OF FOCUS ON KIND OF EXPEDITE DIFFERENT PROJECTS, DIFFERENT PARTS OF ZONING ORDINANCE REVIEW FOR DIFFERENT ZONING DISTRICTS AND KIND OF DIFFERENT AREAS IN TOWN JUST KIND OF FROM A -- LOOKING AT IT FROM A DIFFERENT GEOGRAPHIC AREA THAN THE REST OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE. SO IN TOTAL, PROBABLY ABOUT 2 1/2 YEARS BUT WE
[00:25:04]
COULD EXPEDITE SOME OF THOSE SMALLER PARTS IF WE HAD A MUCH MORE NARROW SCOPE WE WERE LOOKING AT TO SOLVE SPECIFIC PROBLEMS.>> AND COORDINATE IT WITH THE TRAFFIC STUDY.
>> I GUESS TO ME SIX MONTHS ON MY END SEEMS KIND OF TIGHT.
BECAUSE ON LIKE LOOKING AT IT FROM THE ZONING -- I THINK THE PROBABLY WE COULD TURN AROUND WOULD PROBABLY BE AROUND A YEAR EVEN ON SOME OF THE TARGETED STUFF.
>> SO WE WOULD NOT HAVE RECOMMENDATIONS OR ANSWERS --
>> I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK. VERY FEW OF OUR MORATORIUMS HAVE NOT BEEN EXTENDED BECAUSE INFORMATION HAS COME IN THAT BEGS NEW INFORMATION AND WHAT HAVE YOU.
YOU CAN ALWAYS DO THAT TO SEE WHERE WE ARE.
IT JUST DEPENDSDEPENDS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO. FOR US TO GET A TIMELINE TOGETHER RIGHT NOW IN THIS MOMENT IN THIS MEETING WOULD NOT BE WISE FOR ME TO SUGGEST TO YOU. WE HAVE SOME ESTIMATES FROM OUR EXPERTS HERE BECAUSE WE'RE GEARING UP TO DO THESE PLANS ANYWAY.
WE CAN STUDY SPECIFIC AREAS FASTER.
BUT IN REALITY THE STUDY ISIS GOING TAKE SIX TO TWELVE MONTHS AT A MINIMUM.
>> FOR ME I FEEL LIKE GETTING A -- GETTING A DRAFT OF AN ORDINANCE IN FRONT OF ME SO I COULD LOOK AT AS WELL AS GETTING SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT TIMELINES AND MAYBE POSSIBLY SOME SOLUTIONS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT OR WE COULD BE LOOKING AT WITHIN THE NEXT TWO WEEKS. THAT WOULD HELP ME. I THOUGHT THAT WOULD HELP THE COUNCIL MOVE THIS FORWARD, PERSONALLY HELP ME BETTER UNDERSTAND HOW BEST TO MAKE MY
DECISION. >> I'M GOING TO ASK A REDUNDANT QUESTION. PLEASE FORGIVE ME. BUT WHEN YOU SAY A DRAFT, WHAT IS YOUR INTERPRETATION OF WHAT A DRAFT IS? IS A DRAFT SOMETHING WE CONSIDER IN OFFICIAL MEETING? IS A DRAFT SOMETHING THE CITY MANAGER SENDS YOU THROUGH E- MAIL YOU THAT LOOK AT ON YOUR OWN TIME? HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE DRAFT?
>> SOMETHING THAT'S SENT TO ME THAT I'D BE ABLE TO LOOK AT ON MY OWN TIME. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOMETHING ON PAPER TO SEE WHAT THE SCOPE OF THAT WOULD BE. THE PROPOSED TIMELINE ON IT.
>> MAX, I KNOW YOU WERE ABOUT TO SAY SOMETHING.
>> I WAS GOING BACK TO THE TRAFFIC STUDIES.
THE TRAFFIC STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN COMPLETED FOR THESE TWO PROJECTS VS. THE CITYWIDE TRAFFIC STUDY, IS THERE A GREAT DEAL OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO TYPES OF STUDIES OR IS IT PRETTY SIMILAR IN NATURE? I MEAN, WE HAVE SOME OF THAT DATA I GUESS AVAILABLE TO US
ALREADY. >> THE COMPREHENSIVE TRAFFIC STUDY WILL HAVE SOME OF THE SAME ELEMENTS THAT IS IN THESE OTHER STUDIES, BUT IT DOES REACH A LOT BROADER.
IT DOES LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, FUTURE GROWTH, NOT JUST THIS DEVELOPMENT BUT GROWTH OF THE ENTIRE AREA.
>> THE TRAFFIC STUDY OFFERS SOLUTIONS TO THE PROBLEMS OR JUST TELLS US WHAT WE ALREADY KNOW WE'VE GOT, WE KNOW WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM?
>> THE CITYWIDE TRAFFIC STUDY, YES.
>> MEGAN, THE WHOLE IDEA OF HAVING A MORATORIUM IS A HEALTH SAFETY AND WELFARE, IT HAS TO BE JUSTIFIED THROUGH THAT, CORRECT?
>> I KNOW OUR CITY ATTORNEY'S HERE.
>> THANK YOU, MAYOR. IN RELATION TO A MORATORIUM IT'S THE÷÷ SAME STANDARD THAT THE COUNCIL WOULD HAVE BEFORE IT FOR ANY DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS. SO IN ALABAMA LAW THE COUNCIL IS CHARGED WITH CREATING REGULATIONS FOR DEVELOPMENT WITHIN OUR OWN COMMUNITY.
ALABAMA APPELLATE COURTS HAVE BEEN VERY, VERY CLEAR THAT THEY WILL NOT SUBSTITUTE THEIR OWNOWN OPINIONS, THEIR OWN JUDGMENT FOR THAT OF A CITY COUNCIL SO LONG AS THE CITY COUNCIL'S DECISIONS ARE BASED ON SAFETY, HEALTH AND WELFARE CONSIDERATIONS AND ARE BACKED UP BY EVIDENCE, BY DATA. WHERE ALABAMA APPELLATE COURTS HAVE STRUCK DOWN OR EVEN REPEALED ORDINANCES THAT HAVE BEEN PASSED BY LOCAL MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENTS RELATED TO DEVELOPMENT IS WHEN THERE'S BEEN NO EVIDENCE OR THERE'S BEEN NO REAL SAFETY, HEALTH AND WELFARE CONNECTION. BOTH OF THOSE KIND OF VEER OFF INTO WHAT THE APPELLATE COURTS CALL ARBITRARY AND CAPRICIOUS DECISIONS BY THE COUNCIL.
BUT SO LONG AS THERE IS EVIDENCE, SO LONG AS THERE IS DATA TO SUPPORT A DECISION, THEN ALABAMA AAPPELLATE COURTS WILL ALLOW THAT DECISION TO STAND FROM A GENERAL PERSPECTIVE.
THE ONLY -- I CAN THINK OF ONE PARTICULAR CASE IN WHICH THE ALABAMA APPELLATE COURT REVERSED A LOCAL CITY COUNCIL'S DECISION TO NOT ALLOW A GAS
[00:30:04]
STATION TO GO FORWARD IN THE HOMEWOOD AREA OF ALABAMA BECAUSE DURING THE COUNCIL'S SESSION THE COUNCIL MEMBERS EXPRESSED CONCERNS ABOUT TRAFFIC THAT WOULD BE IMPACTED BY THIS NEW DEVELOPMENT BUT THEY HAD NO DATA TO BACK THAT UP.AND SO THE SAME RULES APPLY TO A MORATORIUM. SO IF A MORATORIUM WOULD BE CONSIDERED BY THE COUNCIL, SO LONG AS THERE ARE SAFETY, HEALTH AND WELFARE REASONS TO SUPPORT THAT DECISION AND THERE'S DATA TO BACK UP THAT DECISION, THEN I BELIEVE FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE THE COUNCIL WOULD BE ON VERY SOLID GROUND.
I WILL ALSO SAY THAT TRAFFIC IS CERTAINLY A SAFETY, HEALTH AND WELFARE CONSIDERATION THAT ALABAMA APPELLATE COURTS HAVE RECOGNIZED AS A REASON TO MAKE DEVELOPMENT DECISIONS ABOUT LOCAL GOVERNMENT.
>> EXCUSE ME, I HAVE A QUESTION.
>> SURE. >> SO IF YOU'RE CITY ENGINEER'S DETERMINED THAT WE HAVE FAILED INTERSECTIONS, WHATEVER CRITERIA THAT TAKES, OR THAT WE ARE AT CAPACITY, IS HER JUDGMENT AND HER ANALYSIS SUFFICIENT TO BE
CONSIDERED EVIDENCE? >> I WOULD CERTAINLY CONSIDER THAT AND I WOULD DEFEND THAT IN COURT.
>> THAT IS WHAT YOU WOULD DEFINE AS DATA COMING FROM
THE -- >> TRAFFIC STUDIES ABSOLUTELY ARE SOLID DATA THAT THE COUNCIL COULD CONSIDER. AND AGAIN, WE DO HAVE DATA FOR IN MY UNDERSTANDING THE INTERSECTIONS THAT THE CITY ENGINEER ALREADY MENTIONED CURRENTLY.
WHAT I THINK IS A MORE ROBUST SET OF DATA WOULD BE THE COMPREHENSIVE TRAFFIC STUDY.
>> WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO PIGGYBACK ON COUNCILMAN ADAMS' REQUEST OF A DRAFT ORDINANCE, COULD WE -- COULD WE LOOK AT A WORK SESSION ON 11- 3 WITH AN ADVERTISED ORDINANCE -- IT WOULDN'T BE A DRAFT ORDINANCE.
IT WOULD BE AN ORDINANCE. BUT ORDINANCES CAN BE AMENDED.
THAT WOULD INCLUDE -- THE WORK SESSION WOULD INCLUDE THE ORDINANCE LANGUAGE, CURRENT TRAFFIC STUDY FOR THE AREA BE ING IDENTIFIED, ANY RECOMMENDATIONS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED ALREADY, ALONG WITH TIMELINES OF A FOCUSED STUDY FOR TRAFFIC FOR THOSE AREAS, A TIMELINE OF FOCUSED ZONING AMENDMENTS FOR THOSE AREAS FOR US TO DISCUSS IN ADVANCE OF THE MEETING ON 11- 4 WHICH AT THAT POINT WE COULD EITHER -- A HOST OF DECISIONS COULD BE MADE REGARDING THAT ORDINANCE. BUT FOR ADVERTISING PURPOSES AND FOR SAKE OF TIME AND SO FORTH IS THAT A POSSIBILITY?
>> IT'S A POSSIBILITY. WE'LL HAVE TO MOVE QUICKLY.
DRAFTING THE ORDINANCE ITSELF IS THE SIMPLE PART BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF EXAMPLES OF THEM.
WE'VE DONE THEM BEFORE. THE TIMELINES ARE THE THINGS THAT ARE A LITTLE BIT CHALLENGING FOR US TO PRODUCE AT THAT DATE.
BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY TRY TO GET THERE AND TO THAT.
THE QUESTION IS HAVING A WORK SESSION ON SOMETHING THAT IS ADVERTISED FOR THE 4TH, LIKE IT'S ALREADY ON THE AGENDA ALREADY AND YOU JUST WANT A WORK SESSION TO GIVE YOURSELVES MORE TIME TO TALK ABOUT IT.
BECAUSE YOU CAN ALSO COLLECTIVELY, YOU KNOW, REMOVE SOMETHING FROM THE AGENDA OR OTHERWISE IN THE MAJORITY OF YOU AT A GIVEN TIME. SO IT'S HOWEVER YOU WANT TO DO IT. WE WILL BE READY TO DO THAT TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY AT THAT TIME.
>> SUMMARIZE WHAT YOUR THOUGHT WAS AGAIN, MISS WITTEN?
>> IT WOULD BE TO ASK MEGAN TO ASK STAFF TO -- OR TO HAVE AN ORDINANCE THAT WOULD BE ADVERTISED AND READY FOR THE NOVEMBER 4TH MEETING THAT WOULD OUTLINE THE PARAMETERS OF A MORATORIUM INCLUDING TIMELINE BUT IN ADDITION TO THAT WE WOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY ON THE 3RD TO HAVE AN IN-DEPTH CONVERSATION ABOUT THE CURRENT TRAFFIC STUDY FOR THAT AREA, ANY RECOMMENDATIONS OR SOLUTION THAT'S HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED OR CAN BE IMPLEMENTED, ALSO A TIMELINE OR EVEN IF IT'S A CONSERVATIVE TIMELINE OF A FOCUSED STUDY FOR THE TRAFFIC AND ALSO ANYTHING CAN THAT CAN BE ADDED FOR THE ZONING PIECE OF THAT, EVEN THOUGH THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE FOCUS OF THE REQUESTED PAUSE. AND THEN THAT WAY WE WOULD BE ABLE TO DETERMINE ON THE 11- 4 MEETING DO WHICH MOVE TO POSTPONE, AMEND, MOVE FORWARD, TRASH IT, ALL OF THE ABOVE, BUT THAT GIVES TIME TO NOTICE IT, TIME TO DISCUSS IT, TIME TO CONSIDER IT AND THEN ALSO MAKE
[00:35:05]
AMENDMENTS IF NEEDED TO THE ORDINANCE. AND THIS IS BY NO MEANS ME ADVOCATING ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.IT'S JUST IF THIS IS SERIOUS OF AN ISSUE THEN WE OWE IT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DISCUSS IT IN EVERY BIT OF DETAIL THAT WE CAN.
AND IF THAT MEANS THE UGLY WORD OF A MORATORIUM THEN BY ALL MEANS LET'S DO IT, DISCUSS IT RATHER.
>> SO IN OTHER WORDS, YOU'RE SAYING LET'S DISCUSS IT BEFORE IT ACTUALLY GOES ON THE AGENDA ON THE 4TH, LET'S DISCUSS IT ON
THE 3RD? >> YOU'RE SAYING TO LEARN MORE ABOUT IT TO BE -- TO GIVE YOU THE ABILITY TO MAKE THE MOST INFORMED DECISION POSSIBLE, WHETHER THAT'S PROCEED, POSTPONE, WITHDRAW IT, DO WHATEVER ON THE 4TH, BUT YOU'RE TAKING TIME THAT'S NOT DURING A CITY COUNCIL MEETING. IT'S A PUBLIC MEETING, BY THE WAY.
>> AND THE PUBLIC WOULD BE INVITED BUT YOU'RE TAKING TIME TO LEARN ALL YOU CAN LEARN ABOUT IT BEFORE THE NEXT MEETING. THE DAY BEFORE.
>> BASICALLY A WORK SESSION AND THEN GO AHEAD AND ADVERTISE IT FOR THE 4TH.
>> YEAH, COME OUT WITH THE AGENDA ON THE
31ST. >> IF WE PULL IT OFF WE PULL IT OFF.
>> YEAH. OR POSTPONE OR AMEND.
EVERY NIGHT. >> AND THE ORDINANCE ON THE 4TH, SHOULD THAT BE THE DIRECTION, WOULD BE ATTACHED TO -- WOULD HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING ATTACHED TO IT IF WE WANTED IT.
>> YOU CAN ALWAYS REQUEST OR HAVE A --
>> I DON'T THINK IT'S REQUIRED,
YEAH. >> IT'S NOT REQUIRED BUT YOU CAN REQUEST IT AT THE COUNCIL'S PLEASURE.
>> AND OF COURSE YOU ALWAYS OFFER CITIZENS COMMUNICATIONS ON AGENDA ITEMS WITHOUT PUBLIC HEARINGS. SO YOU'VE GOT MANY WAYS IN WHICH YOU CAN DO THAT.
>> I THINK WE WOULD WANT TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING IF WE MOVED FORWARD WITH THAT.
>> YOU KNOW, THE WORD "MORATORIUM" IS A PROVOCATIVE WORD. I'VE BEEN A PART OF MAKING DECISIONS ON A COUPLE OF THOSE AND THEY'RE EXTREMELY UNCOMFORTABLE. AND I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE WHERE CHIEF IS COMING FROM. AND I APPRECIATE OUR STAFF'S CONCERNS. FRANKLY I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW I FEEL ABOUT ALL THIS. BUT I RESPECT OUR STAFF.
I KNOW WHAT PEOPLE HAVE TOLD ME. I SEE IT FIRSTHAND AS I DRIVE BACK AND FORTH TO WORK EVERY DAY. AND I KNOW TO ME IT'S A CHALLENGE.
AND I'D LIKE TO SEE SOME MORE INFORMATION AND HEAR SOME MORE DEFINED REASONS AS TO WHY THIS IS SUCH A CHALLENGE THAT WE NEED TO TAKE THIS STEP.
BUT IT'S JUST -- THIS IS A BIG DEAL AND I DON'T WANT TO MAKE ANY OF THIS SEEMS EASY BECAUSE IT'S NOT. IT'S A BIG, BIG DECISION.
>> I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, MAYOR, BUT AT THE SAME TIME I JUST -- I DIDN'T KNOW THIS WAS COMING. KELLEY SAID THAT PRETTY WELL I THINK. YOU PUT APARTMENTS DOWN THERE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TRAFFIC PROBLEMS. FRANKLY I'M EXCITED TO SEE WHAT AN EXPERT SAYS WE CAN DO ABOUT THAT TRAFFIC DOWN THERE BECAUSE I'D REALLY LIKE TO KNOW.
>> WELL, I'D LIKE TO CLARIFY, WE'RE LOOKING FOR MITIGATING THINGS.
PART OF THIS ISN'T FLOW TRAFFIC BUT THERE ARE AREAS WHERE YOU COULD PUT A PROJECT THAT I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU'RE GOING TO GET INGRESS AND EGRESS IN THERE WITHOUT MAKING -- WE HAVE RAILROAD TRACKS, WE'VE GOT ALL KINDS OF THINGS WITHOUT MAKING CONDITIONS WORSE THAN THEY ALREADY ARE. SO SOME OF THIS IS JUST LOOKING FOR MORE MITIGATING THINGS THAT PEOPLE CAN DO.
IT'S NOT ABOUT PROJECTS NOT DEVELOPING AND NOT DEVELOPING TO WHERE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S MULTISTORY DEVELOPMENTS THAT HAVE PEOPLE WHO PARK THEIR CARS AND WALK MAINLY IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA.
IT'S ABOUT THE FACTORS THAT DON'T EXIST IN OUR REGULATIONS THAT ARE MITIGATING FACTORS AT THE MOMENT THAT COULD GIVE YOU AND OUR CITIZENS COMFORT THAT PEOPLE ARE DOING THEIR SHARE OF WHAT THEY NEED TO DO TO HELP KEEP IT FROM NOT GETTING 100 TIMES WORSE THAN IT IS.
NOBODY SAID IT'S GOING TO IMPROVE IT GREATLY.
I THINK IT'S WE'RE AT A POINT IS ARE WE GOING TO GET -- I MEAN A FOOTBALL FRIDAY AFTERNOON DOESN'T COUNT. BUT IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO EXIT THE DOWNTOWN AREA ON THOSE DAYS BECAUSE WE JUST HAVE MORE CARS. WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS DEAL WITH THE AVERAGE DAY OF PEOPLE COMING AND GOING FROM CAMPUS IN THESE AREAS, KEEPING PEOPLE SAFE, AND MOVING TRAFFIC TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY PARTICULARLY AT THE PEAK HOUR AND MAKING SURE THAT DEVELOPMENTS GOING IN ARE DOING THEIR PART TO NOT MAKE IT WORSE THAN IT ALREADY IS. THAT'S IT. IT'S NOT THE NOTION THAT IT'SIT'S GOING TO STOP NEW TRAFFIC COMPLETELY OR STOP DEVELOPMENT COMPLETELY BECAUSE THAT'S NOT THE GOAL HERE. THE GOAL IS TO PROVIDE BETTER MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES.
>> I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID. BUT MY ONLY THING IS YOU KNOW, PERSONALLY I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE FAIR TO EVERYBODY.
>> AND THAT WOULD BE PART OF WHAT THIS WOULD BE ABOUT.
BUT I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
>> I'D BE VERY EXCITED TO SEE A TRAFFIC STUDY THAT TELLS US WHAT TO DO WITH TRAFFIC IN DOWNTOWN AUBURN.
[00:40:03]
I'D BE MORE THAN HAPPY FOR THAT.I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE CITYWIDE ONE BECAUSE WE'VE GOT SOME PLACES WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT WE CAN DO TO FIX IT SO WE CAN GET IT DONE AND CONTINUE THE GROWTH WE'VE BEEN SEEING BUT WE'VE GOT TO GET IT DONE BEFORE IT WITH GO
TOO MUCH FURTHER. >> LOOK, CHIEF, YOU AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LOT. WE APPROVED A BUDGET THAT THE BIGGEST PART OF THE CAPITAL INVESTMENTS IN THE FUTURE OF THIS CITY PLANNED RIGHT NOW ARE FOR TRAFFIC ISSUES. I WENT BACK AND LOOKED AT OUR BUDGET TODAY. OVER THE NEXT SIX YEARS IF WE WERE TO COMPLETE ALL THE PROJECTS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT $150 MILLION THAT WOULD BE INVESTED IN TRYING TO MAKE TRAFFIC EASIER AND BETTER IN OUR COMMUNITY.
SO WE ARE AWARE OF THESE CHALLENGES. WE'VE HEARD OUR ZEBZ. CITIZENS.
AND I BELIEVE WE'VE PASSED A BUDGET THAT IS GOING TO ADDRESS ALL OF THAT. SO I JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR TO EVERYONE.
>> I'D JUST LIKE TO RETURN TO THE HYPOTHETICAL ORDER OF OPERATIONS HERE .
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A POSSIBLE MORATORIUM THAT WOULD BE DEFENDABLE SHOULD IT BE TAKEN TO COURT. IT MEANS THAT WE WOULD BE WAITING FOR SOME TRAFFIC STUDIES THAT WOULD REVEAL YEA OR NAY THAT WE HAVE ISSUES. SO IN THE HYPOTHETICAL WORLD OF A MORATORIUM IT WOULD BE SOME MONTHS DOWN THE WAY, CORRECT?
>> CORRECT. WE'D ALSO BE LOOKING AT MORE INFRASTRUCTURE JUST BESIDES TRAFFIC.
WE FOCUSED ON TRAFFIC. BUT STORMWATER -- AGAIN, WHILE EVERY PROJECT THAT'S COMING FORWARD MEETS OUR REGULATIONS WE NEED TO TAKE A GREATER COMPREHENSIVE LOOK AT SOME THINGS. THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS PEOPLE HAVE. A LOT OF THINGS ARE BEING SHIFTED. THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. WATER AND SEWER LOOKED AT CONSTANTLY BUT THEY WILL BE LOOKED AT AGAIN.
IT'S DEEPER THAN JUST TRAFFIC. SPECIFICALLY IN THAT AREA.
CERTAIN SIZE PIPES CAN ONLY CARRY SO MUCH WATER AND SO MUCH SEWER AT A DISTANCE WITHOUT BEING UPSIZED OR OTHER THINGS. AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO LOOK AT THOSE AS WE HAVE BEEN.
>> ONE MORE THING. I GUESS TO CHIEF DAWSON'S POINT IT KIND OF CAUGHT ME AS A SURPRISE AS WELL.
IT'S THE FIRST TIME WE'VE ACTUALLY HEARD IT COME OUT OF THE CITY MANAGER'S STATEMENTS OR THE STAFF SAMTS TATEMENTS THAT WE WERE AT OR NEAR CAPACITY THIS PAST WORK SESSION. SO THAT TO ME IS KIND OF A FLASHPOINT, AND THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT WE CONSIDER THIS NOW. I AGREE, CHIEF, THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY IS TREATED FAIRLY. BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER THAT IT HADN'T BEEN BROUGHT UP BEFORE AS A SERIOUS SHORTFALL OR POTENTIAL SERIOUS SHORTFALL IS WHAT MAKES IT NOW VERY IMPORTANT. AND THE OTHER THING, YOU DID MENTION THAT THE CHIEF ENGINEER, CITY ENGINEER'S ASSESSMENTS TO DATE WOULD CONSTITUTE ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO MOVE FORWARD. IS THAT CORRECT?
>> IN RELATION TO PASSING A MORATORIUM THERE HAS TO BE DATA AND IT HAS TO BE RELATED TO A SAFETY HEALTH AND WELFARE REASON.
>> TRAFFIC IS ONE OF THOSE REASONS. THERE IS DATA TO SUPPORT A DECISION TO PUSH THE PAUSE BUTTON WHILE THE STAFF ON THE COUNCIL'S BEHALF GATHERS MORE DATA FOR MORE CHANGES OR POTENTIAL CHANGES TO BE CONSIDERED IN THIS COUNCIL'S ROLE IN SETTING THE DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS FOR THE CITY.
>> YES, THAT'S EXACTLY THE PURPOSE OF THE MORATORIUM IS TO PUT A PAUSE ON DEVELOPMENT SO THAT MORE DATA CAN BE GATHERED TO SUPPORT MORE ROBUST CHANGES IN CHANGES ZONING ORDINANCE IN THE DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION MANUAL, IN ALL FORMS OF REGULATION THIS COUNCIL ENDORSES FOR DEVELOPMENT IN THE CITY.
>> I GUESS MAYBE I'M NOT ASKING IT CORRECTLY.
STEET MANAGER'S -- OR EXCUSE ME THE CITY ENGINEER'S ASSESSMENT TO DATE BASED ON WHATEVER STUDIES SHE HAS SEEN OR HAD ACCESS TO AND/OR HER OBSERVATIONS OF CURRENT SITUATION, IS THAT SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE FOR US TO HAVE A
>> IT IS, AND I'LL REMIND EVERYBODY THAT DATA IS NOT JUST THE OPINION OF THE CITY ENGINEER. THERE ARE STANDARDS AND SO ON.
SHE'S EVALUATING THAT BUT YEAH, THERE ARE INDUSTRY STANDARDS. AND AGAIN, IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT TRAFFIC. IT'S ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS. AND DENSITY BEGETS A LOT OF THIS. THERE'S A LOT MORE THAT GOES INTO IT. AND I'LL REMIND YOU IT'S NOT FOR ALL DEVELOPMENT. IT'S SOME TYPES OF DEVELOPMENT WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT. NOT EVERYTHING.
IF SOMEBODY'S GOING TO PUT A THREE- BEDROOM TOWNHOUSE IN
[00:45:02]
URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD WEST THAT'S DEPENDING ON HOW THIS IS WRITTEN IF IT'S A FEE SIMPLE LOT OR IT HAS TO BE MORE THAN A TOWNHOUSE. BUT THERE ARE SOME THINGS PEOPLE COULD DO THAT THEY COULD STILL CONTINUE TO DO. IT'S THE HIGHER DENSITY STUFF THAT BEGETS MORE CONCERN.>> AND SPECIFICALLY THE RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD WEST AND URBAN
CORE? >> URBAN CORE INCLUDING --
>> THOSE WOULD BE THE ONLY TWO SECTIONS OF THE CITY.
>> NOT TALKING ABOUT SOUTHEAST --
>> WHERE WE'RE SEEING THINGS. IT'S WHERE WE HAVE THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF DENSITY.
>> AND YOU COULD BE SO SPECIFIC AS TO A BED COUNT OR DENSITY NUMBER OR --
>> IT WOULD BE CERTAIN THINGS AS DEFINED IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
YEAH. AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE'D HAVE TO DRAFT AND GET TO YOU. SO --
>> SO MISS WITTEN HAS PUT AN IDEA OUT THERE THAT ON THE 3RD, WHICH IS A MONDAY, WE WOULD HAVE A WORK SESSION, THAT WE'D HAVE A DRAFT OF THIS AND THAT THE STAFF WOULD BRING TO US MORE INFORMATION FOR US TO CONSIDER AND THAT THIS DRAFT WOULD BE ADVERTISED TO BE ON THE MEETING OF THE 4TH, WHICH IS THE NEXT DAY AND THEN AT THAT POINT IN TIME THE CITY COUNCIL HAS EVERY OPTION AVAILABLE FROM APPROVING TO POSTPONING TO NOT TAKING ANYANY ON TO TURNING DOWN AND DENYING.
>> WOULD THERE BE ANY INFORMATION PROVIDED FOR THE COUNCIL BEFORE THE 3RD? IS THAT GOING TO BE ALL THE STAFF CAN GET DONE IN THE NEXT 13 DAYS TO PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION ON THE 3RD I'M GUESSING?
>> YEAH, THERE WOULDN'T BE -- WELL, YOU WOULD OBVIOUSLY GET THE INFORMATION AS THE PUBLIC WOULD ON FRIDAY. THE 31ST OF OCTOBER. BECAUSE IT WOULD GO OUT WITH THE COUNCIL AGENDA. IF THAT IS THE SCENARIO WHICH YOU USE IT WOULD GO OUT IN YOUR PACKETS THAT FRIDAY.
>> NOT ALL THE BACKUP DATA PER SE BUT THE ORDINANCE ITSELF, YEAH.
>> IS THE COUNCIL GOOD WITH MOVING FORWARD WITH THAT ACTION? OKAY.
IT'S A WORK SESSION ON THE 3RD. IT WILL BE ON THE 4TH -- VOTED THE 4TH. WE CAN DECIDE HOW WE WANT TO HANDLE IT THE NIGHT OF THE 4T H.
HAVING A WORK SESSION ON THE 3RD.
AND CERTAINLY IN THE MEANTIME THE COMMUNITY HAS HEARD THIS DISCUSSION.
AND I'M SURE THERE WILL BE COMMENTARY ON THAT.
OKAY? THAT WE SHOULD ALL EXPECT. EVERY ONE OF US.
ALL RIGHT? >> I THINK TO BE CLEAR RIGHT NOW YOU'RE JUST REVIEWING DATA AND INFORMATION.
THE COUNCIL'S MAKING NO MOVES. THE STAFF'S NOT RECOMMENDING YOU MAKE A SPECIFIC MOVE. WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT DATA THAT WE HAVE AND CONCERNS AND THAT'S IT.
>> IN A WORK SESSION ON THE 3RD.
>> BUT YOU'LL BE PROVIDING A DRAFT ORDINANCE THAT WOULD BE ON --
>> IT WOULD GO OUT ON OCTOBER 31ST WITH THE COUNCIL AGENDA.
THAT'S CORRECT. >> BUT IT WOULD BE ON THE COUNCIL MEETING OF NOVEMBER THE 4TH.
>> AND I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE ADVERTISE A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THAT MEETING. IF THAT'S THE WILL OF THE COUNCIL.
>> WE'RE JUST GOING TO SAYSAY RECOMMENDED ON THE AGENDA BECAUSE WHEN WE SAY REQUIRED IT'S REQUIRED BY LAW.
SO RECOMMENDED IS YOUR INDULGENCE TO OPEN ONE.
>> ANYTHING ELSE FOR THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE?
>> MAYOR, WE HAVE A NUMBER OF AGENDA ITEMS THAT AN APPLICANT THIS AFTERNOON, ALL HICKORY CREEK DEVELOPMENT ITEMS HAVE BEEN WITHDRAWN FROM THE AGENDA. THAT'S 9C4 THE ANNEXATION, 9C5 THE REQUEST TO REZONE TO LDD.
9C6 AND 10P5 A CONDITIONAL USE REQUEST ALL FOUR OF THOSE ITEMS HAVE BEEN WITHDRAWN AND I'LL REMIND YOU WHEN WE GET TO THOSE POINTS ON THE AGENDA.
>> OKAY.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.