[ 1. CALL TO ORDER] [00:00:03] OKAY. WE'LL CALL TO ORDER TONIGHT'S AUBURN CITY COUNCIL MEETING FOR NOVEMBER THE 8TH, 2025. WE CERTAINLY WELCOME ALL OF YOU THAT ARE ATTENDING LIVE WITH US IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBERS AS WELL, WATCHING THROUGH OUR STREAMING SERVICES. LINDSAY WITH THE ROLL CALL. ADAMS. HERE. HERE. DAWSON HERE. GRISWOLD HERE. MORMAN HERE. PARSONS, HERE. TAYLOR HERE. WHITTON HERE. ANDERS, HERE. BEFORE WE RISE FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, I JUST DO WANT TO SAY THAT IT'S BEEN A TOUGH DAY IN OUR COMMUNITY. I'M SURE MOST OF YOU KNOW THAT IT'S BEEN A DIFFICULT DAY IN OUR COMMUNITY. I WILL NOT SPEAK TO ANY SPECIFICS DUE TO PRIVACY CONCERNS, BUT I WOULD ASK THAT YOU PLEASE REMEMBER THE FAMILIES AND THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS TRAGEDY TODAY. WOULD YOU PLEASE RISE FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE AND REMAIN STANDING FOR A MOMENT OF SILENCE? I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS. ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. PLEASE BE SEATED. EARLIER TONIGHT, DURING THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE, THERE WERE NO OFFICIAL ACTIONS TAKEN PLACE. COUNCILMAN COUNCILWOMAN WHITTEN DID ASK US TO REMOVE AN ITEM FROM THE END OF THE AGENDA AND PLACE IT EARLIER IN THE AGENDA, AND THE COUNCIL AGREED TO DO THAT. AND WE'LL TAKE THAT UP IN JUST A MINUTE. UNDER MAYOR'S ANNOUNCEMENTS, I WANT TO SAY CONGRATULATIONS TO THE AUBURN HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS CROSS COUNTRY TEAM, [4. MAYOR AND COUNCIL COMMUNICATIONS] WHO WON THE STATE CHAMPIONSHIP FOR THE THIRD YEAR IN A ROW, AND THAT IS EIGHT OUT OF NINE YEARS. WHAT A GREAT PROGRAM THEY HAVE WITH THE GIRLS CROSS COUNTRY AT AUBURN HIGH. WE'RE VERY PROUD OF YOU. AND CONGRATULATIONS. THIS COMING FRIDAY NIGHT WILL BE IN A VERY HISTORIC BALL GAME PLAYED AT DUCK SAMFORD PARK, WHERE AUBURN-OPELIKA WILL BE PLAYING IN THE FINAL FOUR WITH A CHANCE TO GO TO THE STATE CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. THAT HAS NEVER HAPPENED IN THE HISTORY OF THESE TWO SCHOOLS, AND IT'LL BE A GREAT EVENING OF GREAT YOUNG PEOPLE WEARING THEIR SCHOOL COLORS AND FIGHTING IT OUT FOR AN OPPORTUNITY TO TO PLAY AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL. CERTAINLY PROUD OF OUR YOUNG MEN FROM AUBURN HIGH SCHOOL AND THEIR COACHES, THEIR ADMINISTRATORS, THEIR STAFF AND THEIR PARENTS, AND THANK THEM FOR THEIR HARD WORK AND THE WAY THEY REPRESENT OUR COMMUNITY AND CERTAINLY LOOK FORWARD TO BEING THERE ON FRIDAY NIGHT. I'LL LET EVERYBODY KNOW THAT IT'S 7:00. THERE WILL BE MORE TICKETS RELEASED TONIGHT. SO DON'T GET TOO DISTRACTED IN WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE IN THE MEETING. IF YOU WANT TO GO TO THE BALL GAME AND DON'T HAVE YOUR TICKETS PLEASE GET THOSE TICKETS AND IT'LL BE AN INTERESTING DAY. I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO THE SGA FROM AUBURN UNIVERSITY FOR HOSTING ME ON CAMPUS LAST WEEK WITH MOCHA'S WITH THE MAYOR. IT WAS A GREAT EVENT, ENJOYED TALKING TO OUR STUDENTS. I PERSONALLY LOVE TO ENGAGE WITH AUBURN UNIVERSITY STUDENTS AND HEAR WHAT'S ON THEIR MIND AND ENCOURAGE THEM TO BE A PART OF OUR GREAT COMMUNITY, AND IT WAS A WELL PLANNED EVENT, AND I APPRECIATE THEIR EFFORTS AND THEIR ENTHUSIASM TO HAVE ME OVER THERE. I ALSO WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO EVERYONE THAT WAS INVOLVED IN THE VETERANS DAY. IT WAS, I THOUGHT, ONE OF THE BEST VETERANS DAY CEREMONIES WE'VE EVER HAD. IT WAS COLD, BUT IT WAS BRIGHT AND SUNSHINY. ALL OF OUR SPEAKERS ADDED SO MUCH. THE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO CAME AND SANG WERE AWESOME, AND WE HAD A WONDERFUL CROWD. AND IF YOU WERE PART OF THAT CROWD, I APPRECIATE IT. I WANT TO THANK ALL OF OUR STAFF. THERE'S A NUMBER OF YOU IN HERE THAT HAD A LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY IN MAKING THE VETERANS DAY HAPPEN, AND I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THAT. I'M PROUD THAT WE LIVE IN A COMMUNITY THAT RECOGNIZES THE HONORS OUR VETERANS LIKE WE DO. AND NEXT WEEK IS THANKSGIVING. SOME OF YOU MIGHT BE ON THE ROAD. SOME OF YOU MIGHT BE HERE. YOU MIGHT HAVE HEARD THERE'S A BALL GAME BEING PLAYED ON SATURDAY NIGHT AFTER THANKSGIVING. BUT I HOPE FOR OUR COMMUNITY THAT ALL OF YOU HAVE A HAPPY THANKSGIVING. YOU ENJOY YOUR TIME WITH YOUR YOUR FAMILIES, YOU HAVE SAFE TRAVELS. AND I THINK WE ALL WOULD BE HONEST BY SAYING THAT WE ALL HAVE A LOT TO BE THANKFUL FOR IN THIS ROOM. SO GOD BLESS YOU AND HAPPY THANKSGIVING. ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANYTHING THEY'D LIKE TO SAY TONIGHT? ANY ANNOUNCEMENTS? YES, MA'AM. OKAY. ON SUNDAY COMING UP, NOVEMBER THE 23RD. THIS IS OUR YEARLY SENIOR CITIZENS THANKSGIVING DINNER. SO IF YOU'RE 55 PLUS OR YOU KNOW ANYONE THAT IS THAT AGE OR HOMELESS OR JUST WANT A HOT MEAL, THEN COME TO THE BOYKIN COMMUNITY CENTER AT BETWEEN 2 AND 5 AND WE WILL BE GLAD TO GIVE YOU A GOOD HOT, CATERED MEAL. SO THE PUBLIC IS INVITED. I THINK I GAVE ALL THE INFORMATION FOR IT. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. ANYONE ELSE? I HAVE A QUICK ONE, PLEASE. THE HOLIDAY ART SALE IS THIS SATURDAY. IT'S THE 19TH ANNUAL, AND YOU MIGHT SEE A KITTEN SET UP. AND VERY PROUD OF HER AND HER ACCOMPLISHMENTS. SO JUST COME OUT AND SUPPORT ALL THE ARTISANS AND MAKERS WHO WILL BE AT THE ART SALE THIS SATURDAY. JAN DEMPSEY. THANK YOU. OKAY, WE'LL MOVE AHEAD WITH OUR UNIVERSITY COMMUNICATIONS. [ 5. AUBURN UNIVERSITY COMMUNICATIONS] HI. GOOD AFTERNOON. AS THE MAYOR ALREADY MENTIONED WE JUST WANTED TO THANK MAYOR ANDERS AND THE AUBURN POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR JOINING US ON CAMPUS LAST WEEK FOR MOCHAS WITH THE MAYOR. THIS IS A GREAT EVENT LETTING AUBURN UNIVERSITY STUDENTS CONNECT WITH LOCAL LEADERS. [00:05:06] I ALSO WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THAT AUBURN SGA HAD BREAKFAST WITH MAYOR ANDERS THIS MORNING. UNFORTUNATELY, I WAS UNABLE TO ATTEND, BUT I HEARD THAT IT WAS A PRODUCTIVE MEETING. WE WERE REALLY GRATEFUL FOR THE CONTINUED PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN THE CITY AND THE UNIVERSITY. TOP FIVE MISS AUBURN CALL OUTS TOOK PLACE LAST WEEK. THE FOLLOWING JUNIOR GIRLS WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CAMPAIGN TO BE MISS AUBURN IN THE SPRING SEMESTER. IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER. THEY ARE RILEY JOHNSON, ELIZA SUNDBERG, VIRGINIA AND HOLMES, MEGAN GEORGE AND CAMILA LORD. IN ADDITION TO MISS AUBURN, REGISTRATION FOR SPRING ELECTIONS CLOSED YESTERDAY AND STUDENTS RUNNING FOR SENATE SCHOOLS, COUNCIL TREASURER, VICE PRESIDENT AND PRESIDENT ARE GETTING READY TO RUN A CAMPAIGN IN THE SPRING AS WELL, SO THAT'S ALWAYS A VERY EXCITING TIME. YESTERDAY WAS ALSO BETTER RELATIONS DAY. THIS IS AN EVENT WHERE OUR SGA HOSTS STUDENTS FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA'S SGA. THIS ALLOWS THE TWO SGAS TO COMPARE IDEAS AND CONTRAST POSITIONS, RULES, AND JUST TALK ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES BETWEEN THE TWO PROGRAMS. AND THEN ON THURSDAY, THE BEAT BAMA FOOD DRIVE OFFICIALLY ENDS. SO IF ANYONE IS WANTING TO HELP DONATE TO THAT. WE WOULD LOVE TO BEAT BAMA. BUT THAT ENDS THURSDAY AND THERE ARE THERE ARE MULTIPLE PLACES DOWNTOWN THAT YOU CAN DROP OFF CANS FOR THAT. AND THEN AS THE THANKSGIVING HOLIDAY APPROACHES, WE ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO AN EXCITING BREAK HOSTING BOTH THE MERCER GAME AND THE IRON BOWL. HOPING THAT EVERYONE HAS A SAFE HOLIDAY. THAT'S ALL FROM ME. THANK YOU ALL AND THANK YOU. WE APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. AT THIS TIME, WE'LL MOVE INTO CITIZENS COMMUNICATIONS ON ITEMS ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA. [ 6. CITIZENS’ COMMUNICATIONS ON AGENDA ITEMS] IF YOU'D LIKE TO SPEAK TO THE COUNCIL ABOUT ITEMS ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA, THIS WILL BE YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT. YOU PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR RECORD. FOR THE RECORD, YOU'LL HAVE FIVE MINUTES. I WOULD POINT YOU TO RESOLUTIONS WHICH ALL OF OUR RESOLUTIONS HAVE PUBLIC HEARINGS ATTACHED. SO IF YOU'D LIKE TO SPEAK ABOUT ONE OF THOSE ITEMS, PLEASE WAIT TILL THEN TO SPEAK TO THOSE. ALL OF THEM. DON'T JUST EXCUSE ME. UNDER ORDINANCES, WE DO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING RELATED TO ITEM NINE A THAT WILL BE CONTINUING FROM THE LAST MEETING. CORRECT A NUMBER OF ZONING ACTIONS. YOU HAVE PUBLIC HEARINGS ALSO. OKAY. IT'S NOT LISTED IN MY BOOK SO I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT. THERE IT IS. IT'S DOWN AT THE BOTTOM. OKAY. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR CORRECTIONS. ANYWAY, IF WE HAVE IF YOU HAVE AN ITEM THAT YOU'D LIKE TO SPEAK TO THAT HAS A PUBLIC HEARING ATTACHED, WE'LL ASK YOU TO WAIT TILL THE END. YES. GO AHEAD PLEASE. YES, SIR. THANK YOU. MY NAME IS SAM LESLIE. I'M WITH DILLER DEVELOPMENT HERE IN AUBURN. I'M HERE TO SPEAK TO ORDINANCE NINE. B FOUR IS THE COLE PLACE. PHASE ONE ANNEXATION. WE WOULD BE THE DEVELOPER FOR THAT, FOR THAT PROPERTY. AND JUST LIKE TO REQUEST THAT WE POSTPONE THIS TO THE DECEMBER 16TH MEETING JUST BETTER ALIGNS WITH OUR AGREEMENT WITH THE LANDOWNER THERE. OKAY, Y'ALL HAVE ALREADY MENTIONED THAT TO THE STAFF, CORRECT? I DID NOT HAVE THE DECEMBER 16TH DATE UNLESS YOU SHARED THAT WITH ME. JUSTICE. THAT WAS NOT KNOWN, BUT YES, THAT THEY WANTED TO POSTPONE. OKAY. AND I'LL REMIND THE COUNCIL. THAT'S UP TO YOU. THERE'S A PROCEDURAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PLANNING COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL. THAT'S NOT AN AUTOMATIC POSTPONEMENT. IT IS A IT'S ON YOUR AGENDA. THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO REQUEST THAT. AND YOU HAVE THREE CHOICES. YOU CAN POSTPONE IT. YOU CAN VOTE IT UP OR YOU CAN VOTE IT DOWN. SO THOSE ARE YOUR CHOICES AT THE THEN TIME. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YEAH. ANYONE ELSE? OKAY. WE'LL MOVE AHEAD TO CITY MANAGER'S COMMUNICATIONS UNDER CITY MANAGER'S COMMUNICATIONS THIS EVENING. [ 7. CITY MANAGER’S COMMUNICATIONS] I'LL REMIND YOU THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME SHIFT OF ITEMS. ONE ITEM FROM RESOLUTIONS, ITEM TEN F IS GOING TO BE MOVING UP TO JUST UNDER NINE. A BECAUSE OF SOME ACTIONS THAT NEED TO BE TAKEN. OTHER THAN THAT, I WANT TO REMIND YOU THERE ARE SEVERAL VACANCIES ON OUR BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS. THERE'S TWO VACANCIES ON THE CEMETERY ADVISORY BOARD FOR TERMS THAT BEGIN JANUARY 1ST, 2026 AND IN DECEMBER 30TH, 31ST, 2030. THERE'S ONE VACANCY ON THE WATERWORKS BOARD FOR A TERM THAT BEGINS JANUARY 20TH, 2026 AND ENDS JANUARY 19TH, 2032. THOSE APPOINTMENTS WILL BE MADE AT THE DECEMBER 16TH MEETING, SO WE'LL BE OPENING APPLICATIONS TOMORROW FOR THOSE. ARE YOU READY FOR THE CONSENT AGENDA, PLEASE? [ 8. CONSIDERATION OF CONSENT AGENDA] FIRST ITEM OF BUSINESS IS THE CONSENT AGENDA. DOES ANY COUNCIL MEMBER WISH TO REMOVE AN ITEM FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA AND DEAL WITH THAT ITEM INDIVIDUALLY? YES. I'D LIKE TO REMOVE 8D1. ANYONE ELSE? YES, SONNY. ITEM EIGHT. DELTA SIX. ANYONE ELSE? OKAY EIGHT D1. ITEM EIGHT D1 AUTHORIZES AN INFRASTRUCTURE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WITH 60 EIGHT V GREENWOOD [8.d.1.68V Greenwood Village 2026, LLC. Infrastructure development agreement. Greenwood Village. Postponed from October 21, 2025.] VILLAGE 2026, LLC. THIS ITEM WAS POSTPONED FROM THE OCTOBER 21ST, 2025 MEETING FOR APPROVAL. [00:10:07] SECOND MOTION. SECOND MISS WHITTON. YES. THANK YOU. IN THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, IT OUTLINES THE VARIOUS THINGS WITH REGARD TO INFRASTRUCTURE. AND ONE OF THE ITEMS IS A A PRO RATA SHARE OF $146,000. COULD WE GET AN EXPLANATION OF HOW WE COME TO THAT NUMBER? ABSOLUTELY. I'LL HAVE SCOTT CUMMINGS, OUR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF DEVELOPMENT SERVICES, SPEAK TO THAT. ALSO REMIND THE COUNCIL THERE'S A NUMBER OF DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS UP AND DOWN THIS AREA, HAVING TO DO IN DIFFERENT PHASES OF DEVELOPMENTS WITH IMPROVEMENTS IN FARMVILLE ROAD, MRS JAMES ROAD, FARMVILLE INTERSECTION WITH DONOHUE. DONOHUE. SO THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT MOVING PARTS, AND THERE ARE ALSO TRAFFIC STUDIES THAT PLAY ROLES IN THIS. SCOTT. YEAH. AND I THINK THAT THAT SUMS IT UP VERY WELL. AS FAR AS THE THE TRAFFIC STUDY IS DETERMINED WHAT THE AMOUNT WAS. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, SO WE'VE BEEN MAKING EACH DEVELOPMENT THAT HAS ACCESS. I DON'T THINK THE MICROPHONE IS ON GREG. GO AHEAD. OKAY. THERE YOU GO. OKAY. SO WHAT DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN CONTRIBUTING TRAFFIC TO NORTH DONOHUE DRIVE EACH HAVE HAVE BEEN REQUIRED SINCE DATING BACK TO, I GUESS, 2017, 2016, SOMETIME IN THAT TIME FRAME HAVE BEEN CONTRIBUTING TO THE FUTURE IMPROVEMENTS TO NORTH DONOHUE DRIVE. WE'VE INCREASED THAT AMOUNT THROUGH THE YEARS. YOU KNOW, BASED ON INFLATION AND, YOU KNOW, TO TO THE COST OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT IT IS TODAY AND ASSIGNING TO THAT THE PRO RATA SHARE RELATES TO HOW MUCH OF THE PERCENTAGE OF TRAFFIC WOULD BE CONTRIBUTING TO NORTH DONOHUE BASED ON THEIR TRAFFIC STUDY. AND FROM OUR ANALYSIS OF THAT, THAT'S THAT'S WHERE WE DERIVE TO GET TO THE NUMBER THAT THAT WAS ASSIGNED TO THIS DEVELOPMENT. THAT'S BECAUSE EACH DEVELOPMENT HAS THEIR OWN PER SE. IT'S POSSIBLE. YES, EACH HAS ITS OWN AND EACH WOULD BE INDIVIDUAL AND INDEPENDENT OF THE OTHERS. AND OFF OF THIS TRAFFIC REPORT, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF TRAFFIC WOULD TAKE WOULD GO TOWARDS DONOHUE. THE TRAFFIC STUDY INDICATED ABOUT WE ROUNDED UP TO 70% YOU KNOW, WOULD WOULD BE TO NORTH DONOHUE, 30% WOULD BE EAST TOWARDS NORTH COLLEGE. OKAY. VIA FARMVILLE. YES. OKAY. AND THEN NOT PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. BUT LATER IN THE IN THE AGENDA ITEMS, WE TALK ABOUT THE SCHEDULE OF CONSTRUCTION THAT DOESN'T PLAY INTO THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. WELL, IT DIDN'T FACTOR INTO THIS. WE DID WE DID DISCUSS THAT IT QUITE A LENGTH BEFORE CONCLUDING THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT AND LOOKING AT THE SCHEDULE THAT WE HAVE PROPOSED TO DESIGN AND CONSTRUCT THE IMPROVEMENTS TO THE INTERSECTION AT FARMVILLE AND NORTH DONAHUE AND THE PROPOSED SCHEDULE FOR CONSTRUCTION OF THE DEVELOPMENT, WE FELT LIKE THAT THOSE TWO WOULD SYNC UP FAIRLY WELL IN ORDER TO GET THE INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS DONE, BEFORE ANY SIGNIFICANT IMPACTS WOULD BE ON THERE FROM THIS DEVELOPMENT. AND THEN IF WE WERE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH APPROVAL OF THIS ITEM AND FUTURE ITEMS REGARDING THIS PROPERTY WERE TO NOT MOVE FORWARD, THAT VOIDS THE ACTION ON THIS ITEM. ABSOLUTELY. THIS DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WOULD BE NULL AND VOID IF YOU DON'T APPROVE THE ZONING. ACTIONS THAT WOULD GO WITH IT. WE WOULD NOT EXECUTE IT. OKAY. THANK YOU. SO, MEGAN, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I HEARD THIS RIGHT. SO THERE'S AN EQUITABLE. EVALUATION OF EACH OF THESE DEVELOPMENTS. AND WE WE CHARGE A PRO RATA SHARE BASED ON WHAT WE THINK THE TRAFFIC STUDY WITH THE TRAFFIC STUDY SAYS. IS THERE GOING TO BE CREATED? IS THAT CORRECT? IS THAT WHY ONE DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE THIS AND ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE THIS? AS FAR AS WHAT THEIR CONTRIBUTION IS? YES, YES, THAT SUMS IT UP WELL. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. CAN YOU PROVIDE A COMPARISON, SAY, OF OLD SANFORD TO THIS ONE? I WANT TO CAUTION REAL QUICK. IT'S I WANT TO CAUTION THE COUNCIL. SO WE'RE HAPPY TO PROVIDE INFORMATION. THEY'RE NOT THEY'RE APPLES AND ORANGES. SO WHEN WE DO PROVIDE THE INFORMATION. MY ONLY CAUTION POINT IS, IS WE HAVE RUN THIS THROUGH THE LEGAL GAMUT SINCE THIS STARTED, AND WE'RE HAPPY TO PROVIDE THE INFORMATION. BUT THEY ARE APPLES AND ORANGES BASED ON THEIR TRAFFIC STUDIES, DIFFERENT CONNECTIONS, ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT BUILD INTO THAT NUMBER. AND SO WE WE WENT THROUGH AN INTENTIONAL PROCESS TO GET THERE. SO YES, WHEN WE START THROWING OUT NUMBERS, IF SCOTT HAS THOSE WITH HIM, THEY ARE GOING TO VARY. SCOTT. YEAH. YOU MEAN ON A PER LOT BASIS? THE GREENWOOD VILLAGE IS PAYING ABOUT $200 A LOT MORE FOR THE OLD [00:15:06] SANFORD CONTRIBUTION. AS I SAID, YOU KNOW, BASED ON THAT 70, 30% TRAFFIC FLOW DISTRIBUTION, ONLY 70% OF THE LOTS WOULD BE CONTRIBUTING TO THAT. SO THAT'S WHERE WE COME UP WITH THAT NUMBER FOR DONAHUE. YOU MEAN FOR DONAHUE? YES. SO THE $200 MORE IS CAUSED BY WHAT? THE $200 MORE IS CAUSED BY INFLATION AND INFLATING THAT VALUE? YOU KNOW, IN COMPARISON TO WHAT IT WAS AT THE TIME, WE ESTABLISHED THAT SAME FEE FOR OH, SANFORD. THANK YOU. GOOD QUESTION. THIS IS DOWN THE DOWN THE AGENDA SANFORD GROUP DOES A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT TO IS IT PAYING INTO THE SAME IT WOULD BE PAYING INTO THESE SAME GROUPS OR IS THAT I THINK I READ THAT IN THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. I JUST WANT TO CLARIFICATION. THEY ARE THEY'RE ACTUALLY PAYING, YOU KNOW, THAT SAME AMOUNT OF THE 1400, YOU KNOW, PLUS DOLLARS PER LOT FOR CONTRIBUTIONS TO NORTH DONOHUE. BUT THEY'VE ALSO GOT ADDITIONAL CONTRIBUTIONS THEY'RE PAYING FOR OTHER INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS AND STREET WIDENING. OKAY. AND WE CAN TALK MORE ABOUT THAT WHEN WE GET TO THAT ITEM. GLADLY, BECAUSE COUNCILMAN MOORMAN PULLED IT. IF YOU WANT MORE INFORMATION. SURE. THAT WAS A LITTLE OUT OF ORDER. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE A MOTION A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. HI. ANY OPPOSED? AND THE MOTION CARRIES. ALL RIGHT. NOW ITEM 86 AUTHORIZES A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WITH SANFORD GROUP LLC FOR FARMVILLE OAKS. [8.d.6.Samford Group Land, LLC. Development Agreement. Farmville Oaks.] MOVE APPROVAL. SECOND. I HAVE A MOTION. SECOND. WAS THAT YOU, SANDY? IT IS. THANK YOU. AND IT'S SIMILAR QUESTION AS COUNCIL COUNCILWOMAN WHITTEN ASKED. IT SAYS THAT THE DEVELOPER SHALL DESIGN AND CONSTRUCT A LOW PRESSURE SANITARY SEWER AND CONVEYANCE SYSTEM, ALONG WITH BEING A PART OF THAT, THE COST SHARE OF IMPROVEMENTS TO NORTH DONOHUE, WEST FARMVILLE ROAD WIDENING AND IMPROVING THE INTERSECTION OF OF MRS JAMES ROAD AND FARMVILLE ROAD. SO CAN YOU DO ALL THAT WITH $87,500? SOUNDS LIKE A HEAVY LIFT. THAT'S THE CONTRIBUTION THAT IS EXPECTED. NOT FOR THE SEWER SYSTEM, THE SEWER SYSTEM. JUST THE INTERSECTIONS AND ROADS BASED ON THE 42 LOTS. YOU KNOW, THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, ON A PRO RATA SHARE BASED ON THOSE THAT NUMBER OF LOTS TOWARDS THOSE STREET IMPROVEMENTS, INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS, AND NORTH DONOHUE DRIVE IMPROVEMENTS. ALL RIGHT. AND SO THERE WOULD BE AN ADDITIONAL COST FOR THEM TO DESIGN AND CONSTRUCT A LOW PRESSURE. THEY WOULD HAVE TO BEAR THE ENTIRETY OF THAT COST WITHIN THEIR DEVELOPMENT. CORRECT. AND THAT WAS MEMORIALIZED IN THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT TO ENSURE THAT THAT THEY WERE AWARE AND YOU WERE AWARE THAT THEY HAD TO PROVIDE SANITARY SEWER TO THE LOTS BEFORE THEY WERE ABLE TO, TO BE PERMITTED FOR CONSTRUCTION. OKAY. AND JUST ONE OTHER SMALL QUESTION. THERE WAS SOME LAND INDICATED IN THE NORTHWEST CORNER, BUT I COULDN'T TELL WHAT THAT LAND WAS SET ASIDE FOR. THE LOTS WERE DIFFERENT ON THE MAP THAT I SAW. HOLD ON JUST A SECOND. WE WOULD NEED TO GET TO THAT BECAUSE THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT IS NOT. GOOD. YEAH. SO THAT THAT IS NOT A PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT. IT ACTUALLY JUST KIND OF LOOKS LIKE A CHIMNEY, LIKE, I GUESS ALMOST KIND OF LIKE IDAHO. THAT PART'S JUST NOT A PART OF THAT DEVELOPMENT. IT'S IT'S NOT BEING ANNEXED, NOT BEING REZONED OR ANYTHING. THAT IS NOT A PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT LIKE THE THE WESTERN SIDE OF WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT. NORTHWEST. YEAH. THAT'S. YEAH. THAT'S CORRECT. ALRIGHTY. YOU GOOD? NO. WELL, IT LOOKS LIKE THERE ARE LOTS THERE, I GUESS. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE THE WHITE FADED PART? YES. OKAY. YEAH. SO, SO YEAH. SO THERE'S NOT NOT TWO PHASES. I GUESS HE WAS THINKING THAT THERE WOULD BE THE PARTS THAT WERE THE ONE ACRE LOTS, AND THEN THESE, THESE WERE GOING TO BE MORE ESTATE LOTS, BUT I GUESS THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO PARTNER WITH A ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNER TO POSSIBLY SELL THOSE TO HIM. AND SO THEY WERE STILL IN TALKS ABOUT THAT, AND THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT THEY WERE WORKING OUT. AND SO THAT MAY NOT BE A PART OF WHEN WHEN THE PRELIMINARY PLAT INITIALLY COMES IN. BUT LIKE I SAID, THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT THE DEVELOPER WAS KIND OF WORKING ON. AND SO THEY INCLUDED THIS IN THE EXHIBIT OF ALL THE LAND THAT THEY ARE CURRENTLY LOOKING AT, JUST BECAUSE IT'S ALL THE STUFF THAT'S BEING THAT IS A PART OF THIS. BUT AS IT MAY NOT BE INCLUDED ON THE PRELIMINARY PLAQUES THAT MAY BE HASHED OUT BETWEEN PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANKS. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? AND THE MOTION CARRIES. DO I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE BALANCE OF THE CONSENT AGENDA? [00:20:02] SO MOVED. SECOND. MOTION IS SECOND TO APPROVE THE BALANCE OF THE CONSENT AGENDA. ANY FURTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? AND THE MOTION CARRIES. ORDINANCES UNDER ORDINANCES. [9.a.Ordinance declaring a temporary moratorium on the construction of multiple unit developments and private dormitory developments within the Urban Core and Urban Neighborhood – West zoning districts. Postponed from November 4, 2025.] ITEM NINE A DECLARES A TEMPORARY MORATORIUM ON THE CONSTRUCTION OF MULTIPLE UNIT DEVELOPMENTS AND PRIVATE DORMITORY DEVELOPMENTS WITHIN THE URBAN CORE AND URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD WEST ZONING DISTRICTS. THIS ITEM WAS POSTPONED FROM THE NOVEMBER 4TH MEETING. A MOTION IS NEEDED IN THE PUBLIC HEARING IS STILL OPEN. I'LL INTRODUCE THE ORDINANCE AND ASK FOR UNANIMOUS CONSENT. YOU CAN JUST MOVE IN SECOND. I'LL MOVE FOR APPROVAL. MOVE FOR APPROVAL. ALL RIGHT. SECOND. ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE A MOTION, A SECOND. AT THIS TIME, I'LL REOPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. IF YOU'D LIKE TO ADDRESS THE CITY COUNCIL REGARDING THIS, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. AND YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO SPEAK TO THE CITY COUNCIL. AND I KNOW WE HAD A NUMBER OF SPEAKERS TWO WEEKS AGO. YOU'RE WELCOME TO COME BACK. YES, SIR. ACTUALLY, MAYOR, I'M PROCEDURALLY. TYPICALLY YOU'RE NOT. IF YOU'VE ALREADY SPOKEN, IT'S A IT'S UP TO YOU GUYS IF YOU'RE GOING TO WAIVE THAT PROCEDURE. MR.. COUNCIL. OKAY. I MEAN I'D LIKE TO WAIVE THAT, BUT YOU NEED TO THEN SET A RULE FOR TONIGHT. YOU STILL GET TYPICALLY EVERYBODY WANTS. AND THEN IF YOU WANT TO HEAR FROM PEOPLE A SECOND TIME YOU LET EVERYBODY GO THE FIRST TIME AND THEN GO FROM THERE. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? THAT'S YOUR NORMAL PROCEDURE AS EVERYBODY GETS ONE SHOT AT A PUBLIC HEARING. YOU'RE SAYING ON A GIVEN NIGHT YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE THEM THAT, THAT ONCE. BUT IF THEY WANT TO SPEAK A SECOND TIME, THAT'S GOING TO BE UP TO YOU FROM THERE TONIGHT. OKAY. YES, SIR. APPRECIATE THAT. MY NAME IS ROBERT WILKINS, 261 DENSON DRIVE, AUBURN, ALABAMA. I'M HERE CONCERNED, OF COURSE. AGENDA NINE, A THE LOVELIEST VILLAGE ON THE PLAINS, WAS BORN IN 1839, RECEIVING A CHARTER FROM THE ALABAMA LEGISLATURE. THIS MORATORIUM IS NOT ABOUT THE IMMEDIATE STORM WATER AND SEWER ISSUE. WE PAY THE MOST MONEY TO OUR EMPLOYEES THAN ANY ALABAMA CITY IN RESOLVING THOSE STRUCTURAL PROBLEMS. BUT IT'S ABOUT FUTURE CHARACTER OF AUBURN. I RECOMMEND PERMANENT MORATORIUM ON PRIVATE DORMITORY DEVELOPMENTS DOWNTOWN BECAUSE I'M 100% AGREEMENT WITH TOM HALEY THAT IT IS TIME. AND I SAY WAY PAST TIME, THAT THE AUBURN UNIVERSITY BUILD ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY AND START MERGING DOWNTOWN INTO A UNIVERSITY STUDENT HOUSING EXTENSION. DOWNTOWN ALREADY HOUSES TOO MANY ONE 60 ROSS, THE STANDARD AT AUBURN WEST AND RIGHT 191 COLLEGE UNCOMMON ALEVE AND THE NEWEST EYESORE ACCOLADE AUBURN. THE CITY OF AUBURN. THE REALTORS AND COMMERCIAL DEVELOPERS WITH ITS WITH ITS COUNCIL AND MAYOR SHOULD DEVELOP A TASK FORCE WITH A MAJORITY OF MEMBERS BEING AUBURN CITIZENS BY HELPING TO PHASE BACK IN THE MULTI-UNIT DEVELOPMENT DOWNTOWN, WHERE THE RECHARACTERIZATION OF THE LOVELIEST VILLAGE ON THE PLAINS. I WANT TO VOLUNTEER TO BE THE FIRST CITIZEN TO BE ON THAT TASK FORCE. LET'S BRING BACK THE UNIQUE WARMTH THAT MYSELF AND OTHERS WHO HAVE ATTENDED AUBURN UNIVERSITY OR HAVE GROWN UP IN AUBURN, LIKE THE MAYOR ANDREWS ANDERS, COUNCILMAN MOORMAN, COUNCILMAN TAYLOR, AND COUNCILMAN DAWSON. THERE IS NO NEED TO BE TO THE GREED OF MONEY, AS IT VASTLY CHANGES AUBURN INTO A COLDER STALKER AND UNIMAGINATIVE CREATION THAT'S BEGINNING TO ENGULF THE ONCE LOVELESS VILLAGE ON THE PLAINS. BUT ALSO, MONEY CAN BRING PEOPLE AND ITS COMMUNITY BACK TOGETHER WHILE PRESERVING HISTORY AND THE LOVE FOR EACH OTHER. THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF STORIES ABOUT AUBURN RESIDENTS WHO HAVE TRANSFERRED THEIR LOVE FOR AUBURN UNIVERSITY BY THE STRENGTH THAT LOVE THROUGH THE CITY OF AUBURN. THERE ARE TWO STORIES REPRESENTING THAT LOVE THAT I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT. THE FIRST STORY I EXPERIENCED FIRSTHAND AFTER THE ESTER5 TAILORED. GRISWOLD, ANDERS, PARSONS, AND DAWSON VOTED TO DESTROY HALF OF THE SHORT TERM RENTALS IN AUBURN. OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS. I HAD TO FIND SOMETHING THAT GAVE ME FLEXIBILITY IN TAKING CARE OF MY WIFE, WHO HAS MS.. SO I STARTED DOING UBER EATS DELIVERIES ONE DAY YEARS AGO. I DELIVERED THIS ONE LOCATION AND WAS IMMEDIATELY ENTHRALLED AND AMAZED BY THE OWNER'S CREATIVITY AND OBVIOUSLY LOVE FOR AUBURN. A STATEMENT ON THEIR WEBSITE SAID, IT TAKES US FOUR YEARS TO GRADUATE FROM AUBURN AND THE NEXT 25 YEARS TRYING, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET BACK. THE HUSBAND AND WIFE, WITH TWO TEENAGERS, MOVED FROM MEMPHIS TO START AN ADVENTURE THAT STRENGTHENED THEIR LOVE FOR AUBURN WHILE PRESERVING AND TRANSFORMING THE HISTORIC WHITTLE HALL INTO THE COLLEGIATE HOTEL THAT IS ABOUT DOWNTOWN AUBURN IS ALL ABOUT. SECOND STORY IS ABOUT TWO AUBURN GRADUATES THAT WERE A GENERATION APART IN AGE, BUT HAVE GREAT LOVE TO AUBURN. ONE WAS IN REAL ESTATE WHILE THE OTHER WAS IN CONSTRUCTION. [00:25:03] THEY HAVE ACCUMULATED MORE THAN 1,000,000FT² UNDER THEIR MANAGEMENT CARE AND OWNERSHIP FOR SUPERMARKETS, 35 RESTAURANTS, SEVEN OFFICE BUILDINGS, SEVEN MEDICAL FACILITIES, TEN GAME DAY EVENT RENTALS, 17 CONVENIENCE STORES, AN ARRAY OF RETAIL SHOPS, ALSO BUILDING OF RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISIONS, 50 ROADS AND MORE. A QUOTE FROM THE WEBSITE OF THEIRS WAS BECAUSE OF THEIR TIES TO AUBURN UNIVERSITY. DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES NATURALLY MIGRATE TO AUBURN, ALABAMA. OF COURSE, I'M TALKING ABOUT HALEY READ DEVELOPMENT COMPANY. AS YOU MAY HAVE NOTICED, BOTH OF THESE MEN FROM THE DIFFERENT BUSINESSES SPOKE AT THE LAST COUNCIL MEETING ON THE MORATORIUM. THESE ARE THE KIND OF BUSINESS OWNERS THAT HELP TO GROW ALABAMA. I MEAN, AUBURN, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME STRENGTHENING ITS ROOTS. I REQUEST THAT BOTH OF THEM BE A PART OF THE TASK FORCE AND THAT I'M REQUESTING TO BE ON. IT IS TIME THAT WE MOVE ALL THE CITIZENS OF AUBURN FORWARD AS A COHESIVE FAMILY AND BUSINESS UNIT. THANK YOU. HE'LL BE NEXT. HEY. GOOD EVENING. I'M JIM BEATTY, AND MY ADDRESS IS 504 EUCLID AVENUE IN BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA. I SPOKE AT THE LAST MEETING, SO I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME TONIGHT. I ALSO EMAILED YOU ALL WHAT I'M GOING TO READ TONIGHT. SO I APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE IF, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THIS IS REPETITIVE, BUT I DID WANT TO HAVE A CHANCE TO READ THIS IN SEEING THAT WE HAD OUR PRE-APPLICATION MEETING SINCE THE LAST MEETING. SO AGAIN, AS YOU'RE AWARE, CAPSTONE COMMUNITIES, WHO I REPRESENT OF BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA, AND OUR JV PARTNER, LANDMARK PROPERTIES OF ATHENS, GEORGIA, WE'RE CURRENTLY UNDER CONTRACT TO PURCHASE SEVERAL EXISTING MULTI PARCEL UNITS ON WEST GLENN AVENUE ADJACENT TO UNCOMMON AUBURN, AND SUBSEQUENTLY REDEVELOPED SAID PARCELS INTO A NEW AND MORE EFFICIENT MULTI-UNIT RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT TO HOUSE APPROXIMATELY 927 STUDENTS. THE PROPERTY ITSELF IS PRESENTLY DESIGNATED FOR HIGH DENSITY STUDENT HOUSING USE, AND CURRENTLY PROVIDES STUDENT HOUSING FOR OVER 200 STUDENTS. FURTHERMORE, THE PROJECT IS PLANNED TO MEET THE CITY REQUIREMENT OF 1.1 PARKING PLACES FOR EVERY STUDENT ON SITE, SO WE DID NOT ANTICIPATE THE REQUIREMENT OF ANY VARIANCES. WE INITIALLY COMMENCED DISCUSSION OF THE PROJECT WITH THE AUBURN CITY STAFF MEGAN CROUCH, SCOTT CUMMINGS ON OCTOBER 4TH, 2024, AND OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST YEAR, WE HAVE BEEN WORKING IN GOOD FAITH TO ACQUIRE THE LAND AND EFFECTUATE COMMENCEMENT OF THE PROJECT. ON SEPTEMBER 26TH, 2025, WE FORMALLY REQUESTED PRE-APPLICATION MEETING WITH THE CITY, WHICH WAS FORMALLY CONDUCTED ON NOVEMBER 12TH, 2025. UNDER OUR CURRENT SCHEDULE, WITHOUT EFFECTUATION OF THE PROPOSED MORATORIUM, OUR DEVELOPMENT WOULD NOT BREAK GROUND UNTIL THE EARLIEST OF NOVEMBER 2026 AND IS IT'S PROJECTED WOOD WOULD BE READY FOR DELIVERY FOR THE 2930 SCHOOL YEAR. HOWEVER, SHOULD THE COUNCIL APPROVE THE PROPOSED MORATORIUM, OUR DEVELOPMENT COULD BE DELAYED UNTIL POTENTIALLY THE 2031 OR 2032 SCHOOL YEAR, EFFECTIVELY CREATING A TWO YEAR SETBACK. SO, WITH RESPECT TO THE FOLLOWING CITY CONCERNS STATED IN THE PROPOSED MORATORIUM AND THE PROJECT, WE WANTED TO KIND OF TOUCH ON A FEW OF THESE ITEMS. SO ZONING WOULD BE THE FIRST. THE THE PROJECT IS TO BE DEVELOPED WITHIN PARCELS PRESENTLY DESIGNATED FOR HIGH DENSITY STUDENT HOUSING USE AND WHICH USE CURRENTLY PROVIDES STUDENT HOUSING FOR OVER 200 STUDENTS. AS SUCH, WE DO NOT BELIEVE ANY VARIANCES ARE NECESSARY SINCE THE PROJECT IS TO BE DEVELOPED IN THE ZONE. LOCATION OF DEVELOPMENTS OF THIS SORT. AS PREVIOUSLY DETERMINED BY THE CITY, ALTHOUGH A LARGER DEVELOPMENT, THE PROJECT WOULD EFFECTIVELY REPLACE AN OUTDATED MULTI-UNIT DEVELOPMENT WITH A NEW, MORE EFFICIENT AND SAFER DEVELOPMENT WITH APPROPRIATE PARKING TO PROVIDE STUDENTS CLOSE PROXIMITY TO AUBURN UNIVERSITY'S CAMPUS IN RESPECT TO STORM WATER AND SEWER CAPACITY, WE DID NOT ANTICIPATE THE PROJECT TO CREATE OR HEIGHTEN ANY STORM WATER OR SEWER CAPACITIES WHICH WOULD DETRIMENTALLY AFFECT THE CURRENT INFRASTRUCTURE. FURTHERMORE, NO PARTICULAR CONCERNS WERE RAISED WITH RESPECT TO THIS AND OUR PROJECT DURING OUR PRE-APPLICATION MEETING. AS IT RELATES TO TRAFFIC, WE UNDERSTAND THAT TRAFFIC IS AND LIKELY WILL CONTINUE TO BE A POINT OF STUDY AND DISCUSSION IN THE CITY. HOWEVER, IN MEETING THE CITY REQUIREMENT OF 1.1 PARKING PLACES FOR EVERY STUDENT ON SITE AND BASED ON THE LOCATION OF THE PROJECT, WITH THE PROXIMITY TO BOTH AUBURN UNIVERSITY'S CAMPUS AND THE DOWNTOWN AREA, WE STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THE PROJECT WILL ACTUALLY INCREASE PEDESTRIAN USAGE AND ALLEVIATE A PORTION OF VEHICULAR TRAFFIC. FURTHER, WE ARE WILLING TO WORK WITH THE CITY TO ALLEVIATE EIGHT TRAFFIC ISSUES, [00:30:04] INCLUDING POTENTIALLY CONTRIBUTING FUNDS TO AID THE CITY AND ADDITIONAL TRAFFIC IMPROVEMENTS THE CITY MAY IDENTIFY. SO, AS PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED, EVEN WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE PROPOSED MORATORIUM, THE EARLIEST THE PROJECT WOULD BREAK GROUND IS NOVEMBER OF 26, WITH PROJECTED DELIVERY SCHEDULE FOR 2930. THE PROPOSED MORATORIUM WOULD EFFECTIVELY CREATE A DELAY OF THE PROJECT, LIKELY TWO YEARS. SO AS THE CURRENT TERMS OF THE PROPOSED MORATORIUM EXCLUDES THE PROJECTS WHICH HAVE ON PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THE MORATORIUM RECEIVED APPROVAL OR A VALID ZONING CERTIFICATE OR VALID CONSTRUCTION PERMIT, WE HUMBLY REQUEST THAT THE TERM OF THE PROPOSED MORATORIUM EXCLUDE THOSE PROJECTS THAT HAVE COMPLETED THE PRE-APPLICATION MEETING. SO REALLY, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ASKING TONIGHT. WE'RE ASKING, YOU KNOW, NOT FOR APPROVAL OF THE PROJECT. WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN FOR THE CITY COUNCIL TO CONSIDER NOT VOTING TONIGHT. AND COULD WE POTENTIALLY GO BACK AND AGAIN, RESPECTFULLY, CAN WE AMEND THE ORDINANCE? AND IN THAT AMENDMENT, CAN WE EXCLUDE PROJECTS THAT HAVE COMPLETED THE PRE-APPLICATION MEETING? I'M NOT 100% CERTAIN, BUT I THINK THAT OUR DEVELOPMENT WOULD BE THE ONLY PROJECT THAT HAS COMPLETED THAT APPLICATION. PRE-APPLICATION MEETING. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. WHO'LL BE NEXT? ANYONE ELSE? OKAY, WE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. COUNCIL. OKAY. I'D LIKE TO START THIS OFF WITH A WITH A QUESTION TO MEGAN. WE TALKED ABOUT IT THIS AFTERNOON. MISS CROUCH, WOULD YOU LET'S REVISIT HOW WE GOT HERE. WHAT WERE WHAT WERE SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT CAME FROM STAFF? AND WHEN WHEN DID THEY START ARISING? THAT BROUGHT US TO THE POINT HERE TONIGHT WHERE WE'RE CONSIDERING A MORATORIUM. CAN WE JUST KIND OF GO BACK AND REVISIT THE HISTORY OF THIS. I'D SAY THAT CONCERNS FROM STAFF ALSO STARTED WITH CONCERNS FROM THE COUNCIL. SO TO CLARIFY, AND ALSO IN AN OVERARCHING STATEMENT, THE MORATORIUM THAT'S ON THE AGENDA IS SOMETHING THAT YOU AGREED TO CONSIDER. YOU DIDN'T SAY YOU WERE GOING TO ADOPT IT, AND IS ONE TOOL THAT YOU HAVE AS A MECHANISM TO MAKE TO MAKE CHANGES, WHY CERTAIN TYPES OF DEVELOPMENT ARE NOT CARRYING FORWARD. THAT WHOLLY RESTS WITH THE CITY COUNCIL. AND IN THIS DECISION POINT, STAFF IS HERE BECAUSE WE HAD TWO PROJECTS, THE RISE AND THE MARK, OF WHICH THIS CITY COUNCIL AND COUNCILS THAT HAVE GONE BEFORE YOU. THEY'RE PERMITTED BY RIGHT USES IN URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD WEST. AND ACTUALLY ONE OF THEM IS PARTIALLY IN THE URBAN CORE AND URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD WEST. DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS CAME BEFORE YOU, AND THAT'S THE FIRST TIME REALLY THAT THE CITY COUNCIL WAS LEARNING MUCH ABOUT THESE PROJECTS, BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEE THESE GOING THROUGH AT THE STAFF LEVEL AND DURING THOSE TIME PERIODS, WE HAD A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS WITH YOU DURING MEETINGS BY A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS COMING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HEY, WHAT'S GOING ON HERE? WHY ARE WE PARTICIPATING IN JOINT INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS? AND WE'RE ALSO LOOKING AT THINGS WHERE BEHIND THE SCENES WITH THE CITY STAFF, I'M LEARNING FROM OUR INTERIM CITY ENGINEER, WHO IS ALSO OUR LONG STANDING TRAFFIC ENGINEER, THAT WE'RE SEEING TRAFFIC STUDIES THAT NOW DON'T HAVE A LOT OF GOOD MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES TO THEM. AND WE'RE SEEING SOME CHANGES IN SEWER. WE LEARNED THAT WE HAVE SOME SOME CHALLENGES WITH SEWER. WE HAVE I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR TO EVERYBODY. WE HAVE PLENTY OF SEWER CAPACITY AT OUR SEWER TREATMENT PLANT, THE PIPES THAT CARRY THE SEWER THERE IN CERTAIN AREAS OF THE URBAN CORE AND POSSIBLY URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD WEST, HAVE A FEW CHALLENGES DUE TO THEIR PIPE SIZE. SOME OF THEM HAVE BEEN UPSIZED OVER TIME BY PROJECTS DEVELOPING. SOME HAVE NOT. BUT WE KNOW SPECIFICALLY THAT WE HAVE SOME CHALLENGES. WE ALSO KNOW IS THIS DENSITY CONTINUES TO GROW, WHICH THE DENSITY IS IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE. THAT'S NOT IT. BUT MORE PARCELS ARE DEVELOPING AT A FASTER PACE THAN WAS ORIGINALLY ANTICIPATED BY ANYONE. AND SOME OF THAT COMES FROM PROPERTY OWNERS WHO AT THE TIME WE TALKED TO THEM IN THE 2015 TIME RANGE, SAID, OH, WE'RE NOT WE'RE NOT GOING TO SELL. CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE CHANGED FOR THEM. THEY ARE BUSINESS PEOPLE AND PROPERTY OWNERS, AND THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO SELL PROPERTY FOR TO WHOMEVER THEY WANT. THAT'S THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE. BUT BASED ON THE INFORMATION WE GLEANED IN THE 2015 TIME FRAME WHEN A LOT OF THIS STARTED. CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE CHANGED NOW IN 2025, ENOUGH TO WHERE WE WANTED TO SAY TO THE CITY COUNCIL, HERE ARE SOME THINGS WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT, AND WE WANT YOU TO BE AWARE. THE DECISION POINTS FOR ALL OF THOSE. AND THERE'S THINGS THAT WE WE CAN STUDY AND WE CAN STUDY THEM, WHETHER YOU DO A MORATORIUM OR NOT. THE DECISION POINTS ALL REST WITH THE COUNCIL ABOUT ULTIMATELY WHAT'S THE CITY'S LEVEL OF PARTICIPATION IN ANY INFRASTRUCTURE UPGRADES. WHAT DO THESE PROJECTS LOOK LIKE? WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE DENSITY? ARE WE SATISFIED WITH WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, OR DO WE WANT TO TAKE A PAUSE WHILE WE LOOK AT MAKING SOME CHANGES? [00:35:04] WE'RE ALSO HAVING SOME CHALLENGES WITH ZONING ITEMS. WE'RE REWRITING THE ZONING ORDINANCE COMING UP, HIRING CONSULTANTS TO DO THAT. THE WAY WE DEFINE HEIGHT IN THERE, WE'RE BEING CHALLENGED REPEATEDLY BY PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT THEY GET TO INTERPRET THE ZONING ORDINANCE. BUT ACTUALLY, BY LAW, IT IS THE PLANNING DIRECTOR WHO INTERPRETS IT WITH HELP FROM OUR LEGAL COUNSEL ABOUT WHAT DOES IT SAY. AND SO THERE'S A NUMBER OF THINGS GOING ON THAT WERE ENOUGH TO SAY, THE CITY COUNCIL, HEY, WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT A FEW THINGS. WE WANT YOU TO BE AWARE AND WHAT CHOICE OR WHAT PATH WOULD YOU LIKE TO GO DOWN WITH THIS. AND THAT'S GENERALLY WHY WE'RE HERE. THANK YOU. AS WE CONTINUE ON, I WOULD ENCOURAGE THE COUNCIL TO BEGIN THIS, THIS TIME RIGHT HERE WITH YOUR QUESTIONS. AND THEN OBVIOUSLY THERE'LL BE TIME IF YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS TO MAKE. SO DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS THAT THEY'D LIKE TO ASK OF THE CITY MANAGER AND THE STAFF? I KNOW THERE'S SOME PEOPLE WHO LIKE TO MAKE A STATEMENT OR MAKE SOME COMMENTS, BUT ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS? I'LL START. I'VE GOT SEVERAL QUESTIONS. COULD WE START WITH, LIKE, WHAT IF WE MOVE FORWARD WITH A MORATORIUM? WHAT WILL BE STUDIED DURING THAT PERIOD? AND THEN THE SECOND PART OF THAT QUESTION WOULD BE DO WE HAVE A PROCESS AND A TIMELINE ALREADY IN PLACE FOR GATHERING DATA, ANALYZING DATA, AND THEN DEVELOPING SOLUTIONS OR MAKING A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL AFTER THAT'S BEEN DONE? RIGHT. THE FOUR KEY THINGS WE'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT ARE SEWER TRAFFIC, ZONING ORDINANCE ITEMS AND SOME STORMWATER. I'M GOING TO HAVE THE INDIVIDUAL DEPARTMENT HEADS THAT ARE IN CHARGE OF THOSE ITEMS, YOU KNOW, GO OVER A FEW THINGS WITH YOU BASED ON FEEDBACK RECEIVED AT THE LAST COUNCIL MEETING AND WORK SESSIONS. WE MAY TALK ABOUT SOME OF THOSE THINGS, COUNCILMAN ADAMS, IF IT'S ALL RIGHT. IN TANDEM, WHICH IS WE'VE GOT CONSULTANTS THAT WERE ON THE RADIO, WE'RE WRITING RFPS, OR WE HAVE OTHER THINGS, AND THEY'LL GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF AN IDEA OF WHERE WE ARE WITH ALL OF THAT TO MOVE FORWARD. ULTIMATELY, WHEN WE GET TO THE END OF WHAT THEY TELL YOU, ULTIMATELY WE NEED TO COME BACK TO YOU IN A WORK SESSION STYLE. AND LIKELY WE NEED TO DO THIS FREQUENTLY TO LET YOU KNOW WHERE WE ARE. BUT WE'RE ALSO GOING TO HAVE TO COME BACK TO THE COUNCIL AND PLANNING COMMISSION WITH RECOMMENDATIONS FOR CHANGES, OF WHICH THEN YOU NEED TO MAKE THE ULTIMATE DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT CHANGES WE MAY OR MAY NOT BE MAKING. SO I'LL START OUT WITH ERIC CARSON, WHO IS OUR WATER RESOURCE MANAGEMENT DIRECTOR, AND HE CAN TALK ABOUT SEWER AND WHAT OUR PLANS ARE THERE. OKAY. LIKE WE DISCUSSED AT THE WORK SESSION, WE RECENTLY COMPLETED OUR SEWER MODEL SEVERAL MONTHS AGO. OUR BASE MODEL, AND WHAT WE PLAN TO DO DURING THIS TIME IS COME TO YOU WITH A TASK ORDER FROM OUR ENGINEER, BARGE DESIGN SOLUTIONS, WHO ARE PREPARING A TASK ORDER FOR US TO DO A COMPREHENSIVE COLLECTION SYSTEM MASTER PLAN THAT WILL LOOK AT OUR AT OUR MODEL THAT WE'VE NOW BUILT. GET WITH PLANNING, LOOK AT ALL THE ZONING THROUGHOUT THE CITY, SEE WHAT THE MAXIMUM DENSITIES ARE IN EACH BASIN, AND TRY TO DETERMINE IDENTIFY WHERE OUR CHALLENGES ARE AND PRIORITIZE THEM. AND THEN WE CAN COME BACK TO YOU WITH A PLAN ON WHICH ONES DO WE NEED TO WORK ON NEXT? LIKE I SAID, WE'RE WORKING ON THAT NOW. I HOPE TO HAVE A TASK ORDER IN HAND, HOPEFULLY BY THE END OF THE WEEK, AND MAYBE IT'LL BE A DRAFT, BUT HOPEFULLY HAVE IT TO YOU TO LOOK AT FOR APPROVAL SOMETIME IN DECEMBER. SO I THINK THAT THAT STUDY IS GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME 12 MONTHS MINIMUM, I THINK. BUT WE CAN GET SOME INFORMATION EARLY ON AND TRY TO START WORKING ON THINGS AS WE IDENTIFY THEM WHILE WE'RE WAITING ON THE FULL REPORT. SO IS THAT FULL REPORT FOR THE WHOLE AREA? IS THAT FOR IS THAT STUDY FOR THE ENTIRE CITY? THAT IS, FOR THE ENTIRE CITY. WE WILL CERTAINLY FOCUS ON THE HOT SPOTS FIRST WHERE THIS HIGH DENSITY DEVELOPMENTS OCCURRING, BUT IT WILL BE FOR THE WHOLE CITY. THAT WAS IT'S A THREE STEP PROCESS. IT WAS OUR GIS MAPPING, GETTING OUR MAPS TOGETHER. SECOND STEP WAS GETTING THE MODEL BUILT. AND THIS IS THE THIRD STEP COMING UP WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR YEARS. DO YOU ANTICIPATE OR DO YOU FEEL LIKE IF YOU WERE TO HYPER FOCUS ON THIS SPECIFIC AREA THAT YOU COULD THAT YOU MIGHT GET ONE PORTION OF IT DONE SOONER THAN THE 12 MONTHS IS OR, OR ARE THINGS STACKED ON EACH OTHER LIKE WE COULD FOCUS ON SOME AREAS AND GET RESULTS FASTER. YES. I DON'T GIVE ANY EXACT TIMELINE, I DON'T KNOW. I UNDERSTAND CERTAINLY WITHIN 12 MONTHS I THINK WE COULD IDENTIFY A BASIN OR TWO AND GET IT STRAIGHTENED OUT. AND, SCOTT, YOU NEVER KNOW WHERE THESE DEVELOPMENTS ARE COMING IN AT. SO I WANT I WANT TO ADD JUST JUST SUPPORT OF ERIC. IT'S YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN A VERY UPPER END OF THE BASINS HERE. AND SO WHEN WE DO THIS MODEL, IT'S WE GOT TO LOOK AT THE ENTIRETY ALL THE WAY. THE WAY THE TREATMENT PLANT. SO WHAT EFFECTS HERE? [00:40:02] YOU KNOW, WE COULD SEE EFFECTS FURTHER DOWN IN THE SYSTEM. AND WE THAT I KNOW THAT THERE WILL WANT TO DIVE INTO. SO I DID WANT TO JUST ADD THAT TO WHAT ERIC WAS SAYING. HOW DOES ZONING OR ANY FUTURE ZONING UPDATES IMPACT WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT? ZONING AFFECT IS THE DENSITY. OKAY. LIKE SCOTT SAID, IF YOU PUT THOUSANDS OF UNITS AT THE TOP OF A BASIN THAT ONLY HAS AN EIGHT INCH SEWER MAIN, YOU CAN OBVIOUSLY HAVE SOME CAPACITY ISSUES IF THE SLOPES AREN'T APPROPRIATE. SO THEY WEREN'T DESIGNED FOR THAT KIND OF DENSITY. A LOT OF THEM. FORTUNATELY, WE'VE HAD GOOD SLOPE AND AND TO DATE I HAVEN'T HAD TO TELL ANYBODY, NO, THAT WE COULDN'T HANDLE THE SEWER. BUT AS MORE AND MORE OF THESE COME IN, IT BECOMES A LOT MORE COMPLICATED AS THAT CAPACITY STARTS GETTING USED UP. AND SO WE'RE KIND OF TO A POINT WHERE A PAUSE WOULD DEFINITELY HELP US CATCH UP AND IDENTIFY THESE AREAS AND ADDRESS THEM. SO THIS ALLOWS US FOR THE CONSIDERATION FOR YOU IS HOW ARE WE BEING EQUITABLE AND ALLOCATING THAT CAPACITY IF THOSE LINES ARE LIMITED AND HAVE CHALLENGES WITH UPSIZING. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WE HAVE. WHEREAS IF A PROPERTY OWNER IS NOW VERSUS FOUR YEARS FROM NOW, ARE THEY THEY DIRECTLY IMPACTED BY SOMEBODY'S REDEVELOPMENT UPSTREAM FROM THEM, TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY CAN'T REALIZE NEAR THE DENSITY THEY COULD HAVE? AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS WE ARE LOOKING TO BALANCE. BUT THESE ITEMS THAT WE'RE LOOKING TO STUDY DON'T OPERATE IN A SILO. CORRECT. ANYTHING ELSE ON SEWER? YOU CAN ALWAYS COME BACK TO IT. THANK YOU SIR. OKAY. I HAVE RANDY GO NEXT ABOUT TRAFFIC AND JUST WHAT HER PLANS ARE. AND AGAIN, WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THESE THINGS ARE WEAVING AS BRANDI DIVES INTO THE CITYWIDE TRAFFIC STUDY AND THEN THE NEXT ONE, AND THEN SHE'S GOING TO TALK ABOUT HOW WE SEPARATE AND SPEED UP ASPECTS OF THINGS IN THIS AREA. YES. SO WE ARE TALKING WITH A CONSULTANT NOW, AS FAR AS THE SCOPE OF OUR CITYWIDE TRAFFIC STUDY, WE'RE HOPING TO BRING THAT TO YOU GUYS FOR APPROVAL BY THE END OF THIS YEAR, FIRST OF NEXT YEAR. ONCE WE GET THAT, THAT'S A CITYWIDE STUDY. BUT WE DO HAVE DIFFERENT AREAS OF FOCUS AS PART OF THAT. AND THIS AREA IS OBVIOUSLY ONE OF THOSE AREAS OF FOCUS. THE IDEA IN OUR SCHEDULE IS THAT WE WILL TAKE TRAFFIC COUNTS IN THE SPRING, AND THEN SUMMER WE WILL START CRUNCHING THE NUMBERS AND DOING THE DATA ANALYSIS FOR ALL OF THESE AREAS WITH THE GOAL TO DO SOME HAVE SOME PLANS AND MAYBE DO SOME TIMING IMPLEMENTATIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT IN A SUBSEQUENT PHASE. ONCE WE GET ALL THAT DATA, BUT ALSO THEN THAT MEANS FROM A POLICY STANDPOINT, AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT LEVELS OF SERVICE AND INTERSECTIONS BEING BAD, WE'RE LOOKING FOR THIS TO COME UP WITH ALTERNATIVE MEASURES WHERE YOU'LL YOU'LL HAVE A CHOICE. IT'S WE WE MAY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE'S TRAFFIC IN THIS AREA, BUT WHAT DOES SOMEBODY HAVE TO DO TO MITIGATE THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES? AND WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT TIMING IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS. WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF SOME OF THOSE OPTIONS. SO IS IT SIDEWALK AND BIKE LANE FUNDS. IS IT OTHER THINGS. WHAT ARE THEY RECOMMENDING AND WHAT ARE YOU WILLING TO ACCEPT AS MITIGATION, KNOWING THAT GENERALLY SPEAKING, DENSITY IN THIS AREA IS WHERE WE INTENDED FOR IT TO BE. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S TO THE CURRENT LEVEL THAT DENSITY IS ALLOWED BASED ON ALL THESE OTHER STUDIES, BUT THAT IS ONE OUTCOME OF THE TRAFFIC STUDY PIECE THAT WE HAVE TO DECIDE COLLECTIVELY IS WHAT IS YOUR TOLERANCE AS A COUNCIL FOR THOSE MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES? WE CAN TELL YOU TECHNICALLY, BUT IT'S WHAT WHAT FLIES FOR YOU AND WHAT ARE OUR CITIZENS EXPECTING? THERE'S BEEN A FEW TRAFFIC STUDIES DONE IN THIS AREA OVER THE LAST A YEAR, I GUESS. IS THERE DATA AVAILABLE THROUGH THOSE THAT WE COULD PUT SOME EARLY SUGGESTIONS TOGETHER ON TO, TO, TO SUGGEST, I MEAN TO SOME IDEAS OF WHAT WE COULD DO OR IS THERE IS THERE SOMETHING WITHIN THIS COMPREHENSIVE STUDY THAT'S GOING TO DIFFERENTIATE, YOU KNOW, BETTER, YOU KNOW, OTHER IDEAS OR WHATNOT, STUDY DIFFERENT ISSUES, I GUESS IS THE QUESTION. YEAH. SO THE TRAFFIC STUDIES, WHILE THEY HAVE COVERED MULTIPLE INTERSECTIONS, HAVE NOT LOOKED AT IT COMPREHENSIVELY. OUR TRAFFIC, OUR COMPREHENSIVE TRAFFIC STUDY WILL LOOK AT THINGS LIKE TRAVEL LIKE WE'LL USE BIG DATA TO LOOK AT ORIGINS AND DESTINATIONS COMING THROUGH THESE CORRIDORS TO SEE WHERE PEOPLE ARE COMING FROM, WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO GET TO. AND WE'LL LOOK AT IT AS A COMPREHENSIVE GRID AND HOW WE CAN MAKE ADVANTAGES HERE THAT MIGHT IMPACT SOMETHING ELSE. AND SO A LOT OF TIMES, IF WE IMPROVE A ROAD ON THE BOUNDARY, TRAFFIC WILL MOVE TO THAT ROAD AND IMPROVE AN INTERNAL ROAD. SO THERE'S THINGS LIKE THAT THAT CAN BE CONSIDERED WHEN WE LOOK AT A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT AREN'T CONSIDERED, WHEN YOU LOOK AT INDIVIDUAL INTERSECTIONS AS PART OF A TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY. TO ADD TO THAT, AS MEGAN MENTIONED, WE'RE ALSO GOING TO BE LOOKING AT WHAT OUR CURRENT REGULATIONS ARE, WHAT MITIGATIONS WE ARE USING RIGHT NOW. BUT IF WE NEED TO IMPROVE A ROAD FURTHER AWAY, CAN WE HAVE THEM PAY [00:45:04] INTO A FUND FOR THAT? THOSE ARE THE KIND OF CHANGES WE MIGHT BE LOOKING FOR IN OUR IN OUR DESIGN STANDARDS. I ALSO THINK BRANDY IS IF I'M UNDERSTANDING SOME QUESTIONS FROM THE COUNCIL CORRECTLY, IS WE DON'T WANT TO HOLD UP THIS STUDY FOR THE WHOLE CITY-WIDE TRAFFIC STUDY. SAME WITH ERIC'S IS THERE ARE COMPONENTS OF IT THAT INVOLVE THIS AREA. AND ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WITH? WE'RE WRITING AN RFP WHERE WE CAN PULL OUT THOSE COMPONENTS AND GET ENOUGH BIG DATA TO FOCUS ON THIS AREA IN A REASONABLE TIME FRAME? YES. AND OUR CURRENT DATA THAT WE'RE OPERATING ON ALREADY IDENTIFIES SOME INTERSECTIONS THAT ARE. A LOW GRADE. YES. I DON'T WANT TO SAY FAILING BECAUSE NOT ANY OF THEM ARE TRULY FAILING YET. CORRECT. WE DO HAVE WHAT WE CONSIDER TO BE UNACCEPTABLE LEVELS OF SERVICE ON MANY OF OUR APPROACH LANES. OKAY. THANK YOU. YEAH, I THINK WE'RE BEING KIND BY SAYING THAT WE HAVE SOME THAT AREN'T FAILING. I MEAN, JUST DRIVE AROUND TOWN AND YOU COULD CERTAINLY SEE SOME THAT ARE FAILING ON ANY GIVEN DAY. BUT WE HAVE A A TREASURE TROVE, I THINK, OF EXPERTISE IN THE CITY OF VARIOUS DEVELOPERS WHO HAVE HIRED THEIR OWN TRAFFIC STUDIES, AS WAS MENTIONED DOWN HERE. AND I WONDER IF THERE WOULD BE SOME MECHANISM FOR YOU ALL TO USE THE LOCAL EXPERTISE OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE THE STUDIES OF THE VARIOUS INTERSECTIONS AND AND POOLED THEM AND TRY TO GET THEM TO GIVE US A LEG UP OR A HEADS UP BEFORE WE GO OUT AND SPEND WHO KNOWS HOW MUCH MORE MONEY ON A COMPREHENSIVE STUDY. WE CAN CERTAINLY EVALUATE USING THOSE SAME CONSULTANTS. WE CAN SOMETIMES PULL FROM THEIR DATA, BUT WE TRY TO GET CURRENT DATA WHEN WE DO THAT. MANY OF THEM, WHEN THE REPORTS THAT THEY GIVE US, WE ACTUALLY ASK THEM AS PART OF THAT, THOSE REPORTS, WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO TO BRING IT UP TO STANDARDS? SO IN THOSE REPORTS, THEY'RE ALREADY GIVING US THAT INFORMATION. THE PROBLEM THAT WE ARE RUNNING INTO IS WE MAY NOT HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY TO MAKE THAT IMPROVEMENT. SO WHAT DO WE DO IN THE INTERIM IF WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY NECESSARY? WELL, THERE ARE CERTAINLY INTERSECTIONS THAT THE RIGHT OF WAY IS GOING TO BE A SIGNIFICANT ISSUE. DONAHUE AND GLENN, I THINK IN PARTICULAR, THERE'S ONE THAT COMES TO MIND. SO IF WE HAVE A POOL OF MONEY THAT PEOPLE ARE CONTRIBUTING TO, BUT WE CAN'T BUILD ANYTHING BECAUSE WE DON'T OWN THE RIGHT OF WAY, WHAT'S OUR NEXT STEP? WHAT DO WE DO? PART OF WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT HERE IS WE NEED TO ALSO PICK THE BRAINS OF CONSULTANTS AND LOOK AT POTENTIAL MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES. THE OTHER THING IS, IS WHAT WE'RE FOCUSED ON HERE. WE HAVE OTHER INTERSECTIONS IN THE CITY THAT ARE HAVING SOME CHALLENGES. AND WHAT WE DON'T DO IS YOU DON'T PICK AND CHOOSE. IT'S WHATEVER POLICIES WE'RE GOING TO MAKE FOR THIS AREA. A LOT OF THOSE POLICIES WILL PERMEATE THROUGHOUT THE CITY, WHICH IS IF YOU CAN'T MITIGATE SOME IN THE SUBURBAN AREAS, YOU HAVE MORE OF AN ABILITY TO WIDEN THAN WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR IS SOME GUIDANCE ON AND WITH PEER COMMUNITIES ABOUT WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU GET TO THIS POINT? IF WE SAID WE WANTED DENSITY IN THIS AREA AND WE HAVE TRAFFIC, THAT'S NOT MEETING CERTAIN STANDARDS, HOW FAR ARE WE WILLING TO GO WITH MITIGATION? I MEAN, BUCKHEAD IN ATLANTA. YOU KNOW, PEACHTREE PROPER, YOU KNOW, IS USED OFTEN AS AN EXAMPLE. THERE'S ALL THESE HIGH RISE BUILDINGS. TRAFFIC'S HORRIBLE. AND THOSE MONIES WERE PAYING INTO OTHER THINGS THAT GO TOWARD MARTA OR GO WHATEVER ELSE. WE'RE NOT WE'RE NOT GETTING MARTA. THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEAN. BUT THERE ARE THRESHOLDS IN WHICH THE GOVERNING BODIES ARE DECIDING WE'RE GOING TO LIVE WITH CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES FOR THESE MITIGATING FACTORS. AND THAT'S PART OF WHAT THIS IS ABOUT, IS ARE YOU OKAY WITH WHATEVER THESE MITIGATING FACTORS ARE IN THIS AREA, WHICH WILL OFTEN BE APPLIED TO THE REST OF THE CITY. SO THAT'S WHERE THAT STANDS. AND THERE'S LIMITLESS. WELL, MAYBE NOT LIMITLESS, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT COULD BE DONE TO TRY TO DETER PEOPLE. DO TOLL ROADS. I MEAN, I'M NOT SAYING WE WANT TO DO THAT, BUT THERE ARE THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE TO DISCOURAGE TRAFFIC OR TO ENCOURAGE USE BY GETTING THERE BY BIKE OR TRANSIT OR SOME OF THE OTHER SERVICES THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE. AND WE JUST NEED TO EXPLORE WHAT THOSE OPTIONS ARE AND THEN HOW WE WOULD FUND THOSE OPTIONS. I WANT TO CLARIFY WHEN YOU MENTIONED LOCAL, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT LOCAL STAKEHOLDERS WITHIN THE COMMUNITY? NOT NECESSARILY CONSULTANTS THEY'RE USING, BUT FOLKS THAT ARE MAYBE ENGINEERS OR FOLKS THAT ARE DOING THIS IN THE COMMUNITY NOW. YES, THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. A LOT OF THESE PROJECTS COME BEFORE US. WE ASK, OKAY, HAS THERE BEEN A TRAFFIC STUDY? AND IN MOST CASES, I THINK, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THE DEVELOPER ACTUALLY SELECTS A SOURCE OR FOR THE ANALYSIS AND THEN THEY PRESENT THAT BACK. YOU KNOW, SO IT'S THEY'RE DOING THEIR OWN ANALYSIS, WHICH DOESN'T MEAN IT'S BAD BECAUSE THE CITY THEN LOOKS AT THEIR ANALYSIS. [00:50:03] BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE IN TOWN THAT CERTAINLY WOULD HAVE SOME OPINIONS AND EXPERTISE THAT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO TAP INTO, INSTEAD OF JUST WAITING FOR A NEW SCOPE OF WORK AND GOING OFF AND AND SPENDING. WHO KNOWS HOW MUCH TIME AND HOW MUCH MONEY, YOU KNOW, IF WE HAVE THEM FOCUSED ON SPECIFIC PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE AWARE OF PERHAPS THAT'S A WAY TO TO MOVE OUT. I'M NOT SAYING THAT THE ANSWER BY ANY MEANS. IT JUST MIGHT EXPEDITE BEING INFORMED ABOUT SOME THINGS. YES. GOTCHA. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S IMPORTANT IS ANYTHING THAT THEY'RE DOING AND STUDYING IS SUBMITTED TO US. AND WE HAVE ALL OF THAT DATA. RIGHT. SO UNLESS IT HASN'T BEEN SUBMITTED TO US, WE DON'T HAVE THAT DATA. WE CAN CERTAINLY COLLABORATE WITH PEOPLE. BUT THERE'S ALSO CERTAIN FIRMS THAT GO OUT AND COLLECT DATA VERSUS SOME COLLECT AND ANALYZE, SOME JUST COLLECT AND PROVIDE IT TO SOMEBODY ELSE AND SO ON. SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THE DATA FROM WAS IT 2016. WE DID THE LAST ONE OF THESE AND THERE'S WE HAVEN'T SEEN WHAT'S HAPPENED ON THE 30 SOMETHING PLUS RECOMMENDATIONS THAT CAME OUT OF THAT. I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY A GOOD PLACE TO START. AND BECAUSE AS WE'VE ALL SAID, THIS IS NOT ANYTHING THAT'S JUST HAPPENED OVERNIGHT. I MEAN, WE'VE BEEN DEALING WITH THIS FOR A LONG TIME. AND WE WENT OVER THAT. THIS AREA IS, BY AND LARGE, THERE ARE VERY FEW PROJECTS THAT WERE NOT ACCOMPLISHED IN THIS AREA. IT'S THE ONES THAT NEED RIGHT AWAY. BRANDI. THAT IS CORRECT. IN THE AREA THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS RELATED TO TRAFFIC? NO. OKAY. I'LL HAVE OUR PLANNING DIRECTOR GO OVER THE PLANNING AND ZONING PORTION. JUST JUSTICE. THANK YOU. SO WE'D BE LOOKING AT A NUMBER OF THINGS. I THINK INITIALLY WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT A ZONING REWRITE IN THE BUDGET PROPOSAL, IT WAS LOOKING AT THE ENTIRE CITY AND LOOKING AT THE ENTIRE ZONING ORDINANCE. IF WE WERE GOING TO EXPEDITE IT AND LOOK AT JUST THE URBAN CORE AND THE URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD, WEST DISTRICT, JUST KIND OF FOCUSING ON THE REGULATIONS. AND SO THOSE ARE TABLE SPECIFIC. WE WERE PLANNING ON LOOKING AT THAT. AND THEN THE SCOPE OF IT GREW. SO JUST KIND OF LIKE THE WATER RESOURCE MANAGEMENT DIRECTOR MENTIONED, WE TALKED ABOUT COUPLING DENSITY TO CAPACITY AND REALLY KIND OF LOOKING AT IT AT A BLOCK BY BLOCK LEVEL AND ESTABLISHING WHAT THAT NUMBER COULD BE AND REESTABLISHING WHAT THOSE DENSITIES MIGHT BE. WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT DEFINITIONS KIND OF ENTERTAINING STORY HEIGHTS AND ALSO A BIG STICKING POINT THAT HAS HAPPENED ON A LOT OF THE BUILDINGS THAT HAVE BEEN BUILT. THE BUILDINGS THAT HAVE BEEN PROPOSED ARE BREAKS AND NOT JUST WHERE THE BREAKS ARE, BUT WHAT GETS BROKEN. JUST KIND OF IN THE BUILDING ALONG THE ALONG THE FACADE, I THINK ON THE ON THE TIMELINE PORTION, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE THINGS GET TRICKY ON OUR END. SO THERE'S TALKING THROUGH THINKING THROUGH ALL THE DIFFERENT POLICIES AND THINGS THAT WE WANT TO CHANGE. BUT I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE LEARNED ON OUR END, AND I THINK ONE OF THE CATALYSTS FOR THIS, IS THAT SOME OF THESE THINGS WE IT'S HARD FOR US TO ANTICIPATE WHAT THE END GOALS AND THE END RESULTS OF THIS MAY BE. AND SO WE WOULD WANT TO ESTABLISH THE POLICY CHANGES. BUT THEN I GUESS TAKE THAT DRAFT AND KIND OF RUN BUILDING MASSING GAMES WITH THOSE TO IN EFFECT WITH SEVERAL ARCHITECTS TO KIND OF SEE WHAT COULD BE BUILT, JUST KIND OF MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH WHAT THOSE POLICIES WOULD LOOK LIKE. ACTUALLY, IN EFFECT, ACTUALLY ONCE THEY GOT BUILT. SO I THINK ON OUR END, THE TIMELINE PROBABLY ABOUT 10 TO 12 MONTHS, WE HAVE IDENTIFIED LIKE A ZONING CONSULTANT TO KIND OF WORK WITH, WHERE WE COULD TURN AROUND AND CONTRACT PRETTY QUICK, THAT WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT THE URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD, WEST AND URBAN CORE DISTRICT. FROM AN ARCHITECT STANDPOINT, WE HAVE WE WE PROBABLY STILL HAVE TO IDENTIFY A COUPLE. AND I THINK THE REASON FOR THAT IS THERE'S ARCHITECTS SPECIALIZE IN DIFFERENT THINGS. DIFFERENT ONES ARE ARE MORE FOCUSED ON STUDENT HOUSING AND THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT OTHERS ARE A LITTLE MORE IMAGINATIVE AND WOULD BE ABLE TO CHALLENGE US AND POKE HOLES IN THE ORDINANCE THAT WE DID. RIGHT. AND SO THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD WANT TO DO. AND I THINK THE TIMELINE ON THAT WOULD BE ABOUT 10 TO 12 MONTHS BEFORE, I THINK, FOR US TO HAVE A GOOD DUE DILIGENCE ON AND HAVING CONFIDENCE IN THE ORDINANCES THAT WE WOULD PUT FORWARD, THAT WOULD BE THESE CHANGES IN THESE TABLES. SO, SO JUST TO MAKE IT CLEAR, SO 10 TO 12 MONTHS WOULD GET US TO TO A POINT WHERE WE MIGHT HAVE SOME ACTION ITEMS THAT WE COULD TAKE THAT WOULD MAKE US, THAT WOULD PUT US IN A POSITION WHERE WE'RE COMFORTABLE TO NO LONGER HAVE A MORATORIUM. I THINK THAT'S GOING TO DEPEND ON HOW IF YOU ADOPT THIS, HOW YOU'LL BE SITTING AT THE TIME TOWARD THAT. THE ELECTION OBVIOUSLY IS IN AUGUST, AND WE CHANGE OVER COUNCILS IN NOVEMBER. SO WE'RE ALREADY LOOKING AT WHOEVER THE THEN COUNCIL IS WOULD LIKELY BE MAKING DECISIONS. YOU GUYS WOULD BE IN THE RAMP UP OF THAT. I YOU KNOW, WE NEED AT LEAST QUARTERLY MEETINGS. THEY MIGHT BE MORE OFTEN WITH THE COUNCIL DEPENDING ON WHAT OUTCOMES ARE, BUT I CAN'T UNEQUIVOCALLY SAY WE MAY BE DONE STUDYING AND WITH RECOMMENDATIONS. IT'S REALLY GOING TO DEPEND ON WHERE DECISION MAKERS, THE ULTIMATE DECISION MAKERS STAND AND HOW THEY FEEL AND WHAT INFORMATION YOU HAVE. [00:55:06] AND IF THAT IS ENOUGH TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS OR NOT. AND THAT'S THE ONLY HARD OUTCOME. I THINK THE WORK THAT JUSTICE IS REFERRING TO CAN BE DONE IN THAT TIME PERIOD AND WE CAN GET OUT WITH SOME RECOMMENDATIONS. IT'S GOING TO DEPEND ON WHAT THE THEN FEELING IS ABOUT ADOPTION OR OR THE CHANGES. AND WE ALSO NEED TO INCLUDE OBVIOUSLY EVERY STEP OF THIS WAY. WHEN WE GET ALONG WITH THINGS, WE'LL NEED TO INCLUDE STAKEHOLDERS AND OR CITIZENS AND ASPECTS OF WHAT WE'RE DOING. ONCE WE HAVE INFORMATION WE CAN SHARE TO GET FEEDBACK ON, AND WE'RE JUST NOT GOING TO BE THERE IN THE EARLY GOING. STORMWATER. ABSOLUTELY. DAN. YEAH. SO WE'VE HAD A HISTORY OF LOCALIZED FLOODING CONDITIONS IN THE URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD, WEST AND URBAN CORE IN CERTAIN LOCATIONS. AND ALTHOUGH THERE HAVE BEEN STUDIES IN THE PAST, THOSE STUDIES HAVE BEEN PRETTY LIMITED TO SPECIFIC CONCERNS OF THE TIME. THEY'RE ALSO OUTDATED. WE WOULD SPEND SOME TIME MOVING FORWARD, EXPANDING THE SCOPE OF THOSE PREVIOUS STUDIES TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THE DRAINAGE ANALYZES AND THE HYDRAULIC ANALYZES TO ALLOW US TO BETTER STRATEGIZE STORM SEWER IMPROVEMENTS TO MINIMIZE OR MITIGATE THESE LOCALIZED FLOODING ISSUES. SO VERY SIMILAR TO TO SEWER, WE WOULD WANT TO STUDY WHAT IS THERE. WE WOULD WANT TO STUDY HOW TO BETTER STRATEGIZE AGAIN MITIGATION TO MINIMIZE ANY OF THESE LOCALIZED FLOODING ISSUES. WOULD THAT INVOLVE A THIRD PARTY CONSULTANT? YES, SIR. THAT WOULD HAVE A. TIMELINE ON THAT. DO YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH 6 TO 9 MONTHS? I'D BE PRETTY COMFORTABLE THAT WE COULD HAVE A STUDY COMPLETE. OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS FOR DAN RELATED TO STORMWATER? OKAY, TYLER, WE'RE STILL YOURS. YEAH, I'VE HEARD IT'S WE'VE WE'VE WE'VE BROUGHT UP SEVERAL SEVERAL DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS USING CONSULTANTS. AND IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE WERE ALREADY WORKING TOWARD GETTING SOME OF THOSE ON BOARD AND GETTING THOSE CONTRACTS IN PLACE. IS THAT CORRECT? WE'VE BEEN WORKING SOME OF THESE STUDIES ARE, YOU KNOW, WE WERE UNDERWAY WITH ASPECTS OF GETTING OUR RFPS TOGETHER. SOME PEOPLE ARE ALREADY. ERIC ALREADY HAS HIS TEAM RETAINED AND HE DOES NEED TASK ORDERS WITH THEM. AND THEN DAN WAS LOOKING AT SOME FURTHER ISSUES BUT WAS READY. WE CAN MOVE FAIRLY EXPEDITIOUSLY WITH THOSE CONTRACTS. IT'S, YOU KNOW, TIMELINE WISE FROM WHEN WE GET STARTED, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO BE IN THE 10 TO 12 MONTH TIME RANGE. THE REASON THE 18 MONTHS IS BEFORE YOU IS IT'S GIVING RUNWAY TO YOU CAN ALWAYS END IT EARLY. IT WAS GIVING RUNWAY TO NOT NEED TO EXTEND IT, BUT IT'S CERTAINLY UP TO THE COUNCIL AT WHATEVER TIMEFRAME YOU FEEL APPROPRIATE, BECAUSE IT WOULD COME BACK BEFORE YOU FOR A DECISION. IT WOULD AUTOMATICALLY EXPIRE ON A DATE THAT IS SET IN THE ORDINANCE AND WOULD BE UP TO YOU, WHETHER OR NOT IN THE DAYS LEADING UP TO THAT, YOU'D WANT TO EXTEND IT OR CANCEL IT SOONER OR WHATEVER. I WOULD LIKE TO, IF WE MOVE FORWARD WITH A MORATORIUM, I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THESE STUDIES AS EXPEDITIOUSLY AS AS POSSIBLE, AND I WOULD LIKE TO POSSIBLY CONTRACT THAT END DATE TO THE TO THE SHORTEST PERIOD OF TIME THAT IS REASONABLE FOR US TO A DEFINITIVE PERIOD WHERE WE CAN GET THAT WORK DONE. IT'S BASED OFF WHAT I'VE HEARD. IT SOUNDS. IT SOUNDS LIKE THE 12 MONTH MARK IS IS IS REASONABLE. IT'S CERTAINLY UP TO YOU. THE ORDINANCE CAN BE AMENDED ACCORDINGLY. ALSO, LIKE MEGAN, THE THE IDEA. AND I WOULD LIKE TO REQUEST. I'M NOT SURE IF IF THE COUNCIL IF, IF WE NEED TO SETTLE ON THIS TODAY OR IT WON'T BE IN THE ORDINANCE. BUT IF WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS, THEN WE SHOULD, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD RECEIVE REGULAR UPDATES WHETHER THAT BE QUARTERLY UPDATES OR MONTHLY UPDATES JUST ON THE PROGRESS SO THAT WE KNOW WHERE STAFF IS IF WHAT, WHAT DATA THAT WE'VE COLLECTED AND WHAT DIRECTION THAT, THAT WE'RE MOVING TOWARD. UNDERSTOOD. IF ANYBODY ELSE HAS ANY QUESTIONS, YOU GOOD FOR RIGHT NOW? YES. OKAY. ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? QUESTIONS? I HAVE, I HAVE ONE, IF I MAY. SURE. I THINK IT'S A QUESTION THAT'S PROBABLY IN THE BACK OF MANY PEOPLE'S MINDS. AND WE'RE HERE TO CONSIDER A MORATORIUM, WHICH IS AN UNUSUAL TOOL IN OUR KIT, I GUESS. BUT THE QUESTION WOULD BE WHY A MORATORIUM? IS THERE SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED? [01:00:01] IT'S A RATHER SUDDEN THING. IT'S A RATHER DIFFERENT A TACTIC TO TAKE? WAS IT BECAUSE THE GROWTH WAS MUCH MORE RAPID THAN WE THOUGHT? OR IS IT BECAUSE WE NEED A QUIET PERIOD TO CONSIDER THESE OUT OF EASY SOLUTIONS ON THESE THINGS? AND THE SOLUTIONS THAT WE WOULD REACH FOR NOW ARE MORE COMPLICATED? AND BUT WHY A MORATORIUM? WHY DOES IT BENEFIT THE CITY OF AUBURN TO STOP TAKING APPLICATIONS FOR BUILDING PERMITS IN IN THOSE AREAS MENTIONED? AND THIS FACILITATES OUR ABILITY TO GET THIS DONE, TO GET A LOOK AT ALL FOUR OF THESE DEPARTMENTS. WELL, GENERALLY SPEAKING, IT'S OUR JOB AS A PROFESSIONAL STAFF TO TELL YOU WHO ARE THE POLICY MAKERS WHEN WE HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THINGS OR WE'RE SEEING TRENDS. AND AGAIN, AS I TALKED ABOUT AT THE START OF THIS, THAT'S BORN OUT OF THINGS THAT WE'RE SEEING AND QUESTIONS THAT COUNCIL HAD ABOUT THE TWO RECENT DEVELOPMENTS. YOU KNOW, THE MARK AND THE RISE. THE MARK IS 836 BEDROOMS AND THE RISE IS 718 BEDROOMS. IT'S TWO LARGE PROJECTS IN URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD WEST END. AND THE MARK IS PARTIALLY IN THE URBAN CORE FROM WRIGHT STREET TO TUMOR STREET AND THE RISES OUT WEST GLENN. AND SO IT'S BORN OUT OF THAT. BUT AS I DISCUSSED EARLY ON, ALSO THE MORATORIUM IS IS A TOOL. IT'S UP TO YOU. IT IS NOT REQUIRED. IT IS WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE COMFORTABLE. WE NEED TO STUDY THESE THINGS ANYWAY, AND THEY WILL BE STUDIED AND WILL BE COMING TO YOU WITH CONTRACTS TO STUDY THEM. IT'S UP TO YOU IF YOU WANT TO ALLOW CERTAIN TYPES OF DEVELOPMENT IN THESE TWO ZONES, TO CONTINUE WITH THE INFORMATION THAT WE'VE PROVIDED TO YOU AND THE CONCERNS THAT WE'VE RAISED WHILE WE STUDY THIS, AND BEFORE WE GET REGULATORY CHANGES IN PLACE AND AND SOME OF THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE JUST LOOKING FROM A SEWER CAPACITY STANDPOINT. EACH PROJECT'S BEEN FULLY EVALUATED. THE RISE IN THE MARK ABSOLUTELY MEET CRITERIA. THEY WERE FULLY EVALUATED. A LOT OF DIALOG WITH THE STAFF, A LONG TIME TO GET BOTH OF THOSE APPROVED INTERNALLY. BUT WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS THOSE ARE LARGE PROJECTS. THERE ARE OTHER PROJECTS TO COME, AND WE'RE ALSO TRYING TO BE EQUITABLE TO PEOPLE WHO OWN PROPERTY IN THIS AREA, ABOUT ABOUT THE CAPACITY OF THE SEWER LINES IN THE AREA WITHOUT MORE INFORMATION. AND WE'RE TRYING TO BE EQUITABLE TO PEOPLE CROSSING THROUGH THE AREA THAT WE HAVE SOME TRAFFIC CONCERNS AND WE'RE NOT EASILY MITIGATED, BUT IT IS CERTAINLY UP TO THE COUNCIL. WE'RE GOING TO STUDY THESE ANYWAY. SO THE DECISION POINT LIES WITH YOU. IF YOU THINK THIS IS THE APPROPRIATE TOOL AT THIS TIME, THAT YOU HAVE LEGAL BASIS TO USE AS TO WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT HIGHLY DENSE DEVELOPMENTS GOING ON IN THESE TWO ZONES AT THIS TIME WITH THESE CERTAIN CONCERNS. AND THAT'S UP TO YOU. THE STUDY IS GOING TO HAPPEN REGARDLESS, AND CHANGES NEED TO BE CONSIDERED BY YOU REGARDLESS. I GOT IT. I GOT ONE TOO. WE'LL GO TO YOU, MAX. MEGAN, WOULD YOU SAY IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT WE CAN STUDY THESE MORE EXPEDITIOUSLY, POSSIBLY WITH WITHOUT CONTINUED PROJECTS COMING IN? I GUESS IN THIS TYPE OF SCENARIO, IF YOU'VE GOT 12 MONTHS, 12 MONTHS TO BE FOCUSED ON, THERE IS NO QUESTION ON ON BOTH THE DEVELOPER SIDE AND THE CITY STAFF SIDE, THERE'S A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WORK THAT GOES ON WITH THESE. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK AND UNLESS OUR CITY ATTORNEY CORRECTS ME, IF YOU WERE TO ADOPT A MORATORIUM, WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE EVEN DOING PRE-APPLICATION MEETINGS THAT WOULD BE FORMAL WITH THESE THESE TYPES OF PROJECTS IN THESE AREAS, WE WOULD BE DOING MEETINGS TO DETERMINE IF THEY WOULD BE UNDER THE, UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF THE MORATORIUM, BECAUSE SOMETIMES THERE'S PROJECTS THAT AREN'T MULTIPLE, YOU KNOW, MULTIPLE UNIT DEVELOPMENT, NOR A PRIVATE DORMITORY. BUT IF WE'RE NOT SPENDING TIME REVIEWING PROJECTS, YES, THEN WE ARE. WE ARE WORKING ON THIS. WE ARE THROUGH TWO VERY LARGE ONES THAT ARE REALLY BASICALLY APPROVED TO BEGIN CONSTRUCTION. AND THEN YOU'VE GOT ONE THAT YOU YOU'VE HEARD ABOUT TONIGHT AND YOU RECEIVED A LETTER ABOUT, AND YOU ALSO RECEIVED A LETTER FROM ME IN RESPONSE TO THAT LETTER. ABOUT AND THAT IS THE ONE. BUT OTHER, YOU KNOW, WE'VE, WE'VE HEARD FROM PEOPLE, YOU'VE HEARD FROM PEOPLE TO MY UNDERSTANDING, IN THE LAST SEVERAL WEEKS OF ALL OF A SUDDEN CONSIDERING PROJECTS. AND THOSE ARE THERE'S A LOT OF TALK ABOUT PROJECTS THAT WE NEVER KNOW ABOUT, BUT THE FORMAL REVIEW PROCESS NOT NOT BEING UNDERTAKEN. YES, FREES UP SOME MORE TIME TO WORK ON THIS. AND ONE OTHER QUESTION THAT I HAVE IS MAYBE A PLANNING AND A TRAFFIC STUDY OR TRAFFIC QUESTION, BUT IS THERE A CONCERN THAT WITH THE MORATORIUM IN THESE TWO ZONES, CONSIDERING PROJECTS WITH PROJECTS GET PUSHED OUT OF THIS ZONE PER SE. IF THERE'S A THERE'S A IF THERE'S SUCH A NEED THERE FROM A MARKET STANDPOINT, THEY GET PUSHED TO OTHER AREAS OF THE TOWN CREATING TRAFFIC ISSUES OR EXACERBATING THOSE [01:05:07] ISSUES THAT WE HAVE NOW. DO WE HAVE THE STAFF SHARE THAT CONCERN AT ALL AT THIS POINT? WELL, YOU KNOW, ONE THING THAT IS WITH WITH THE GROWTH IN AUBURN AND JUST WITH THE MARKET IN GENERAL, PEOPLE SEE OPPORTUNITIES IN BOTH WHAT WE CALL MARKET RATE, WHICH IS MULTI-UNIT DEVELOPMENT APARTMENTS OUTSIDE OF THIS AREA AND INSIDE, I THINK THE PLANNING DIRECTOR CAN SPEAK TO HE IS SEEING BOTH. THAT IS CORRECT. AND SO JUST KIND OF LIKE I MENTIONED IN THE WORK SESSION, THE DENSITY OFFERED IN U AND W AND URBAN CORE ARE SO FAR GREATER THAN DENSITIES OFFERED ANYWHERE ELSE THAT A LOT OF THE BIGGER DEVELOPMENTS THAT WE'RE SEEING THAT ARE TRYING TO BUILD TO THE 800, 900 BED, THEY DON'T REALLY MESS AROUND IN THE OTHER ZONING DISTRICTS. I THINK WE'VE WE'VE SEEN DEVELOPMENTS LIKE THE DISTRICT. I MEAN, WE'VE SEEN OTHER PLACES WHERE THERE ARE HARD CORNERS OF CBD THAT STILL EXIST WHERE PEOPLE CAN PUT MULTIFAMILY, BUT THOSE ARE HARD CORNERS WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PUT COMMERCIAL AS WELL, AND THAT'S JUST NOT THEIR SPECIALTY. AND SO THE DEVELOPERS THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH DOWN HERE, THEY DEAL SPECIFICALLY IN STUDENT HOUSING IN THESE HIGH DENSITY, WE'RE TALKING SIX PLUS STORY KIND OF BUILDINGS. THAT'S WHAT THEIR BREAD AND BUTTER IS. AND THE PEOPLE WHO'VE CONTACTED ME THEY'RE HOPING TO GET TO 250 LIKE 250 BEDS, YOU KNOW, 300 BEDS KIND OF DEAL. THOSE ARE PROJECTS THEY DEAL WITH. THEY'RE NOT FOOLING WITH NINE AND A HALF UNITS AND THEN TRYING TO ACQUIRE 20, 30 ACRES TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN. THAT'S JUST NOT WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO. THEY WANT TO EXIST IN THE HIGH DENSITY AREAS OF TOWN. OKAY. YOU GOOD? I'M GOOD. I WAS GOING TO ASK THE SAME QUESTION. MAX READ MY MIND ON THAT ONE. I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THE THE IT'S IT'S WILL WE WILL STAKEHOLDERS THAT HAVE A SAY. STAKEHOLDERS, MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY, STAKEHOLDERS THAT THAT THAT THAT MAY BE IN MAY BE AFFECTED BY THIS MORATORIUM. WILL THEY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO, TO SPEAK WITH STAFF TO, TO HAVE ANY SAY SAY OR COMMUNICATION DURING THIS PROCESS. AND, AND I THINK AT WHAT POINT IN THE PROCESS DO WE ENVISION THAT? I THINK GENERALLY SPEAKING, WHILE WE'RE HAPPY TO MEET MEET WITH PEOPLE, WE NEED SOME WHEN WE COLLECT DATA AND LOOK AT POTENTIAL OUTCOMES OF HOW THAT DATA IS GOING TO BE USED FROM A REGULATORY STANDPOINT IS WHERE WE NEED THE MOST FEEDBACK. THEY MAY HAVE IDEAS CONCERNS OF THEIR OWN OR WAYS THEY THINK THAT WE CAN ATTACK THE CONCERNS THAT WE HAVE UNILATERALLY, AND WE'RE ALWAYS HAPPY TO LISTEN TO THAT. SO I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO THEY THINK THAT HAPPY TO LISTEN, BUT ALSO A LOT OF THAT COMES ONCE WE LEARN MORE FROM THE DATA ABOUT, HEY, HERE'S WHAT THE DATA SAYS. HERE ARE POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS WE'RE LOOKING AT, AND WE NEED THEIR FEEDBACK AND INPUT ABOUT HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT THAT AND WHAT THEIR OPINION IS. THANK YOU. DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT? OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? YEAH, SURE. SO PROXIMITY TO CAMPUS AND THE ABILITY TO PUT HIGH DENSITY UNITS IS WHAT'S DRIVING THE DEMAND FOR THESE MONSTER THINGS. IS THAT I GUESS KIND OF IN SOME OF MY, MY PASSING CONVERSATION WITH FOLKS. I MEAN, PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THE OCCUPANCY RATES THAT THESE BUILDINGS ARE REPORTING AND THE PREMIUM RENTS THAT THESE BUILDINGS ARE CHARGING, AND THEY ARE TRYING TO GET INTO THE MARKET THAT THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE DOING. FROM A FROM A, I GUESS, LIKE FROM, FROM AN OUTSIDE. AND THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SAID THAT WE WANTED. YEAH. AND AND SO I MEAN, THESE ARE HOUSING WITHIN A MILE OF CAMPUS. WE WANTED STUDENT HOUSING. WHEN YOU'RE DOING YOUR ZONING STUDIES AND CONSIDERATIONS, IS THERE HAS THERE BEEN THOUGHT TO INCREASING THE DENSITY, SAY, THE NEXT BAND OUT AWAY FROM THE. DOWNTOWN? BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T DRIVE FROM EAST TO WEST. SO SO SO THERE THERE HAS BEEN DISCUSSIONS, I THINK, IN, YOU KNOW, FOCUS GROUPS ON OTHER PLANTS NOT NECESSARILY TIED TO THIS ABOUT WHERE WOULD BE WHERE THERE WOULD BE PLACES WHERE YOU COULD STRATEGICALLY ADD DENSITY. BUT THOSE ARE THOSE ARE IN AREAS THAT HAVE ARE ALSO IN IMMEDIATE PROXIMITY TO CAMPUS. BUT THERE ARE ALSO WE HAVE AREAS THAT ARE IN IMMEDIATE PROXIMITY TO CAMPUS. SO THAT THAT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED, I THINK, ON A VERY, YOU KNOW, HYPOTHETICAL IN A TASK FORCE LIKE A, I THINK, A STRATEGIC MEETING KIND OF THING. BUT THE VAST MAJORITY OF THIS HAS BEEN TIED TO LOOKING AT HOW DO WE ADDRESS THE CURRENT DENSITY, BECAUSE ONE OF THE BIGGER PUSHBACKS THAT WE GET FROM A LOT OF CITIZENS IS THAT THERE'S STILL A LOT OF LAND THAT CAN REDEVELOP IN THESE AREAS THAT CAN ADD DENSITY, THAT DON'T NEED TO BE ZONED. AND SO, I MEAN, WHEN YOU DRIVE AROUND KIND OF URBAN URBAN CORE AND YOU DRIVE AROUND THE URBAN NEIGHBORHOOD WEST, EVERYTHING IS NOT FIVE STORIES, EVERYTHING IS NOT SEVEN STORIES. YOU HAVE PLENTY OF THINGS THAT ARE TWO STORIES, THREE STORIES, ONE STORIES. [01:10:01] ALL THOSE THINGS CAN ADD DENSITY TO THEM. AND SO WHAT I GET ON MY END ARE THE SELF-DESCRIBED REAL ESTATE NERDS WHO ARE PLAYING WITH FORMULAS, LOOKING AT DENSITIES, LOOKING AT ACREAGE, AND GOING, THERE ARE INEFFICIENCIES HERE. THERE ARE INEFFICIENCIES. EITHER THEY'RE COUNTING THESE UNITS AND THEY'RE NOT COUNTING BEDS. AND I CAN ADD KIND OF LIKE THEY SPOKE OUT IN THE PUBLIC HEARING EARLIER. THEY'RE CHANGING 200 BEDS TO 900. THAT'S AN ADDITION OF 700 BEDS. THEY ARE LOOKING AT PROPERTIES WHERE THEY CAN ADD SEVERAL HUNDRED BEDS TO ADD TO THEIR REVENUE MODEL. IT IS AN EFFICIENCY GAME THAT THEY ARE PLAYING AND THEN THEY ARE COMING TO US WITH. AND SO LIKE I SAID, I JUST WANT TO REITERATE EVERYTHING THAT ARE IN THESE ZONES THAT IS NOT ALREADY FIVE STORIES OR NOT SEVEN STORIES. THEY HAVE A MARKET INEFFICIENCY, AND THERE ARE PEOPLE LOOKING TO BUY AND ASSEMBLE THOSE PROPERTIES. AND IF IT'S ALL UNDER ONE OWNER AND NOT CONDO OWNERSHIP, IT MAKES IT A LOT EASIER FOR THEM. AND SO THAT THAT IS WHAT WE ARE RUNNING INTO. AND AS YOU KNOW, JUST KIND OF DRIVING AROUND EVERYTHING IS NOT THAT TALL AND CAN BE REDEVELOPED. AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. SO I GUESS WHEN PEOPLE ASK, SHOULD WE PUSH OUT THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THOSE OUTER BANDS ARE VERY LOUD AND SAY THERE IS STILL PROPERTY THAT CAN BE REDEVELOPED IN THESE AREAS THAT CAN ADD DENSITY? AND JUST ONE MORE QUESTION, PLEASE. YEAH. THE UNIVERSITY HAS THESE MASTER LEASES ON MANY OF THESE BIG HIGH RISE APARTMENT COMPLEXES ON SEVERAL OF THEM. SO HAS THE UNIVERSITY BASICALLY PUSHED THIS PROBLEM OVER TO THE CITY AS FAR AS INFRASTRUCTURE AND WHATNOT GOES? BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE BEING ASKED NOW TO THE CITIZENS OF AUBURN ARE BEING ASKED TO BUILD INFRASTRUCTURE AND TRAFFIC IMPROVEMENTS AND WHATNOT BECAUSE THE UNIVERSITY IS INCREASING THEIR ENROLLMENT YEAR AFTER YEAR. AND THEY TOLD US THEY WOULDN'T BE DOING THAT. AND THEN NOW THEY'RE LEASING THESE HUGE APARTMENTS OFF CAMPUS SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO BUILD THEIR OWN DORMS, WHICH ARE PROBABLY A LOT MORE EXPENSIVE THAN TO BUILD DORMS. BUT IS THE UNIVERSITY A PLAYER IN ALL THIS? I MEAN, IS THAT THEY HAVE THEY BEEN THE IMPETUS TO PART OF OUR PROBLEMS? I THINK YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF AUBURN, AND I. I AM NOT AS QUALIFIED AS OTHER FOLKS IN THE ROOM TO TALK ABOUT IT WHO WERE BORN AND RAISED HERE. BUT THE CITY HAS LONG PROVIDED THE MAJORITY OF UNIVERSITY HOUSING, AND I DON'T KNOW OF A TIME, CHIEF DAWSON OR MAYOR SANDERS THAT STUDENTS WERE REQUIRED. I DON'T KNOW, IN MY NEARLY 30 YEAR TENURE HERE WHEN WHEN FRESHMEN SAY WE'RE REQUIRED TO LIVE ON CAMPUS, ANYTHING LIKE THAT, THEY'VE ACTUALLY REDUCED THE NUMBER OF DORMS ON CAMPUS BY TAKING THE HILL OFFLINE. THEY'VE THEY'VE BUILT SOME BACK. BUT THE PRIVATE SECTOR HAS LONG BALANCED. AND A LOT OF PEOPLE IN OUR LOCAL ECONOMY HAVE DEPENDED ON STUDENTS LIVING IN PRIVATE SECTOR UNITS. IT'S A BALANCE OF CONSTRUCTION, OF REAL ESTATE, OF LEASING, OF MAINTENANCE OF WHAT HAVE YOU. AND IT'S IT'S BEEN A BALANCE OVER THE YEARS. AND THAT'S HOW THINGS HAVE BEEN. IT IS CERTAINLY UP TO THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES AND THE UNIVERSITY ADMINISTRATIVE TEAM, HOW THEY CHOOSE TO VIEW THAT. BUT THE MASTER LEASES FOR US HAVE NOT BEEN. I HAVE SOME STRANGE BUG WALKING ACROSS MY MONITOR. SORRY ABOUT THAT. THE UNIVERSITY MASTER LEASES HAVE BEEN HELPFUL FOR US BECAUSE THEN WE KNOW THOSE THINGS ARE LEASED BY THE UNIVERSITY. THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS GETTING SOME FORM OF RENT FOR THAT, YOU KNOW, ARE THE OCCUPANCY IS AND YOU KIND OF KNOW WHAT IT IS BECAUSE WE'VE ALSO DEALT WITH SINCE 2015 AND THE PROLIFERATION OF A LOT OF THESE THINGS. BIG CONCERNS ABOUT VACANCY AND COUNCIL MEMBERS FREQUENTLY ASK, WELL, YOU'VE GIVEN ME A STUDY THAT THIS IS OCCUPIED, BUT ARE ALL FOUR BEDROOMS IN THIS UNIT OCCUPIED? AND THE ANSWER IS, WE DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO REPORT IT THAT WAY. AND SO IT'S IT'S A IT'S A PUSH PULL SITUATION. AND IT'S CERTAINLY UP TO THE UNIVERSITY WHAT THEY DO. BUT IF THEY REQUIRED FRESHMEN AND SOPHOMORES TO LIVE ON CAMPUS, BUILT A BUNCH MORE HOUSING, IT COULD VACATE A BUNCH OF THESE UNITS, WHICH THEN BECOMES A CONCERN. THAT'S PART OF WHAT THE COUNCIL BALANCES AND HAS FOR YEARS. AND I DON'T KNOW CHIEF DAWSON OR MAYOR ANDERS, IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER LENS ON THAT BASED ON YOUR, YOU KNOW, NATIONWIDE COLLEGE ATTENDANCE IS GOING DOWN. AUBURN HAS NOT HAD THAT PROBLEM AND THAT'S THE ENROLLMENT. CLIFF IS NOT IMPACTING AUBURN UNIVERSITY IN THE SAME WAY. NOT YET. AT SOME POINT, IF THAT ENROLLMENT CLIFF DOES AFFECT AUBURN, WE'RE GOING TO BE LEFT WITH ALL OF THESE HIGH RISE BUILDINGS THAT ARE VACANT. SO THEN YOU HAVE TO ASK WHAT HAPPENS NEXT. THAT'S THAT'S AN INTERESTING DYNAMIC AND SOMETHING THE CITY COUNCILS FOR YEARS HAVE HAVE ASKED THOSE QUESTIONS, MEANING LONG TIME STAFF MEMBERS. IT'S NOT A NEW QUESTION THAT THAT WE ANSWER. AND IT IS THIS BALANCE TO THE PRIVATE SECTOR. AND THIS IS A PROPERTY RIGHTS STATE. AND WE WE BALANCE ALL OF THAT AND AND MARKET CONDITIONS. AND THAT'S CERTAINLY UP TO THE PEOPLE MAKING THE INVESTMENTS. GEE, WOULD YOU LIKE TO RESPOND? I ALWAYS THOUGHT THE MARKET WOULD ADJUST ITSELF. [01:15:03] I DON'T THINK THAT'S PLAIN AND SIMPLE. YEAH. AND IT'S BEEN DOING THAT FOR, FOR MANY YEARS AS, AS THE HOUSING HAS BEEN PROVIDED. AND, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, YOU'VE YOU'VE DEALT WITH MOBILE HOME PARKS FOR YEARS, DUPLEXES, DIFFERENT TRENDS IN APARTMENTS THAN ACADEMIC DWELLING UNITS. AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A VARIETY OF THINGS AND THE MARKET IS ADJUSTING ALL OF THOSE. SO, YEAH, KELLY, AS I SAID LAST WEEK, I'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH PRESIDENT ROBERTS AND HE HAS TOLD ME THAT THE UNIVERSITY IS NOT PLANNING TO GROW THEIR NUMBERS. THEIR FRESHMAN CLASS IS GOING TO REMAIN WHAT IT IS. I DON'T I DON'T, DON'T 6160, 200 AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO. THAT'S WHAT THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES HAS TOLD AUBURN UNIVERSITY, THAT THEY WANT THEIR FRESHMAN CLASS TO BE CONTINUING ON. YOU KNOW, AUBURN UNIVERSITY, I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR THEM. SO I'M GOING TO BE VERY CAREFUL WHAT I SAY. THEY THEY HAD A LOT OF OLD INVENTORY, AND THEY MADE A DECISION TO TEAR A LOT OF IT DOWN AND BUILD ACADEMIC BUILDINGS THERE. AND THEY ARE REPLACING SOME OF THAT AND SOME OF THAT. THEY'VE DONE MASTER LEASES ON OFF CAMPUS. I UNDERSTAND THAT PARTICULARLY FOR FRESHMEN PARENTS, THEY LIKE TO KNOW THAT THEIR CHILDREN ARE LIVING IN UNIVERSITY HOUSING. AND AND THAT'S BEEN PART OF THE THOUGHT PROCESS FOR THEM TO, TO DO THAT. WHERE THAT GOES FROM HERE, I'M NOT SURE. OBVIOUSLY, THE UNIVERSITY IS ADDING 300, ALMOST 400 BEDS NEXT TO HAYLEY CENTER AND 680 WHERE CAMBRIDGE IS NOT CAMBRIDGE, IS IT CAMBRIDGE? IS. AND THEY'LL TEAR THAT DOWN AND ADD ON TO THAT. AND SO I DO THINK THEY'RE GOING TO STAY IN THE HOUSING BUSINESS, BUT I DO THINK THAT THEY VALUE AND SEE WITH THE PRIVATE SECTOR OFFERS, AND THEY'VE MADE A CONSCIOUS DECISION RECENTLY NOT TO BE SO HEAVY INTO IT THAT IT AFFECTS THE PRIVATE SECTOR. THAT'S MY OBSERVATION OF WHAT THEIR STRATEGY HAS BEEN. I COULD BE WRONG ABOUT THAT. WELL, I DO IT ALL. UNIVERSITY. I THINK THAT THE LARGEST EMPLOYER IN THE LEE COUNTY, AND WE ENJOY QUITE A WONDERFUL LIFE HERE IN AUBURN. WE HAVE A LOT OF AMENITIES A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T HAVE. WE HAVE LOW CRIME, CRIME RATE, AND I THINK IT'S DUE TO THE TAXES THAT SOME OF THESE HIGH RISE BUILDINGS ARE PAYING. I MEAN, YOU GOT TO LOOK AT WHERE YOUR MONEY'S COMING FROM TO YOU CAN'T HAVE ATHLETIC FACILITIES FOR THE KIDS IN OUR SCHOOLS LIKE WE HAVE WITHOUT THIS BUILDING AND DEVELOPMENT. SO THAT'S ONE THING I LOOK HARD AT TO KEEP THAT IN MIND. WHEN WE LIVE IN A WONDERFUL PLACE, THERE'S NOTHING PHILIP DUNLAP HAS DONE A LOT WITH BRINGING PRIVATE INDUSTRY IN. AND HAVE MORE IN THE AREA, BUT THE UNIVERSITY THERE'S OUR MAIN CASH COW, SO TO SPEAK. THE STUDENTS. I LOVE IT WHEN THEY'RE ALL GONE, BUT I LOVE WHEN THEY ALL COME BACK BECAUSE I LIKE TO EAT GROCERIES AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE MONEY TO BUY GROCERIES, AND UNIVERSITY PAYS FOR A LOT OF THAT. SO I KEEP THAT IN MIND. I'M A BIG PROPERTY RIGHTS PERSON, AND BUT I DO UNDERSTAND IF YOU GET A TOW BY YOUR STAFF THAT YOU GOTTA HAVE SOME PROBLEMS. YOU CERTAINLY GOT POWERFUL MEN. AND LOOK AT IT, I FEEL LIKE I DON'T THINK IT NEEDS TO BE 18 MONTHS, BUT I THINK YOU GOTTA PAUSE AND TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT'S GOING ON, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO BE. ONE OF THE PEOPLE YOU POINT TO IS ON THE COUNCIL WHEN THE WHOLE THING FELL IN. SO THANK YOU, TOMMY. WE'LL USE TOMMY AS A LAUNCHING POINT. DOES ANYBODY ELSE ON THE COUNCIL HAVE ANYTHING THEY'D LIKE TO SAY? I GUESS WE'RE THROUGH WITH ASKING QUESTIONS. SO ANYBODY HAS A STATEMENT OR SOMETHING THEY'D LIKE TO SAY BEFORE WE MOVE TOWARDS A VOTE? I JUST WANTED TO ASK THE GENTLEMAN BACK THERE IN THE BLUE THAT WAS UP. WHERE IS THAT DEVELOPMENT? CAN YOU THE DEVELOPMENT THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? YES, MA'AM. IT'S TO THE WEST OF UNCOMMON ON WEST GLEN. THE PAST, THE WAFFLE HOUSE. THERE'S A TALL BUILDING GOING TOWARD DONAHUE, AND IT WOULD BE NEXT TO THAT. OKAY. OKAY. ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO ANYONE HAVE A STATEMENT OR ANYTHING THEY'D LIKE TO SAY? I'M UP, MR. GRISWOLD. I KNOW, I KNOW, YOU'RE HOLDING PAPER DOWN THERE, AND YOU WANT TO READ IT. YEAH, I'VE LOST A LOT OF SLEEP ON THIS THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS. I'VE GOT AN AWFUL LOT OF PHONE CALLS AND COMMENTS AND RESPONSES ON NEXTDOOR AND ALL. SO I, I ACTUALLY WROTE DOWN SOME THINGS. SO BEAR WITH ME FOR JUST A MINUTE. I AM DISAPPOINTED THAT OUR REGULATIONS OR PROCESSES OR RULES OR WHATEVER HAVE HAVE RESULTED IN US HAVING HAVING TO CONSIDER A MORATORIUM TONIGHT. AND I THINK THE COUNCIL AS A WHOLE SHOULD ASK OURSELVES SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS. IT'S NOT JUST THE FOLKS OUT IN THE AUDIENCE. YOU KNOW, THESE OUR DECISIONS HAVE ALLOWED THESE LARGE DEVELOPMENTS TO COME IN OVER THE, OVER THE OVER TIME. AND IT'S PARTIALLY THE CAUSE OF OUR CURRENT PROBLEMS. YOU KNOW, THE COUNCIL, WE'RE GENERALLY NOT NOT PRIVY TO THE DEVELOPMENTS AS THEY MOVE THROUGH OUR SYSTEM UNTIL A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT IS BEING CONSIDERED. AND THAT MEANS THAT'S USUALLY AFTER MAJOR RESOURCES HAVE ALREADY BEEN EXPENDED OR MORE AT STAKE. YOU KNOW, THE CITY PROCEDURES DON'T ALLOW THE COUNCIL TO GET INTO THE WEEDS, AND THAT'S PART OF THE STATE LAW. [01:20:01] IT'S PART OF THE WAY OUR CITY GOVERNMENT IS ORGANIZED. BUT WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT IF THERE'S A POINT AT WHICH EARLIER INVOLVEMENT WOULD HAVE KEPT US FROM REACHING THIS POINT. AND THAT'S UP TO US TO TO ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS AND, AND ASK FOR COUNSEL FROM THE CITY MANAGER. YOU KNOW, WE'VE ALL BEEN IN TOUCH WITH OUR CONSTITUENTS ABOUT THIS STUFF, AND THEY'VE BEEN SOUNDING THE ALARM FOR AT LEAST THE LAST SEVEN YEARS THAT I'VE BEEN ON THE COUNCIL. IT'S VERY, VERY CONSTANT DRUMBEAT. THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT TRAFFIC. THE BIG THAT'S THE BIG THING. YOU LOOK AT OUR CITY SURVEY. PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT TRAFFIC. THAT'S THE BIG THING. THEY'VE THEY'VE BEGGED US FOR SMART DEVELOPMENT, BUT NOBODY REALLY KNOWS WHAT THAT IS. AND NOT JUST DEVELOPMENT, BUT JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS ALLOWED BY RIGHT, OR CAN GENERATE A WHOLE BUNCH OF TAX REVENUE REALLY IS NOT SUFFICIENT. YOU KNOW, WE NEED MORE THAN THAT. SO WHAT COULD WE HAVE DONE TO ELEVATE OUR CONSTITUENTS CONCERNS? I DON'T I DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER TO THAT. BUT IT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO ASK OURSELVES. SO WE'VE ALSO CONSISTENTLY ADDRESSED AND QUESTIONED THE ADEQUACY OF OUR INFRASTRUCTURE. WHENEVER WE HAVE A MAJOR PROJECT ON OUR AGENDA. AND USUALLY AGAIN, THAT'S ONCE WE REACH IT, WE HAVE A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT IN FRONT OF US AND NOT EARLIER IN THE IN THE PROCESS. AND FOR THE MOST PART, WE'VE BEEN REASSURED THAT DEVELOPERS WILL BE CONTRIBUTING TO THE INFRASTRUCTURE, WHICH IS A GREAT THING, AND THAT THE CITY HAS ADEQUATE STUDIES THAT HAVE PROVED WE'RE MAKING THE RIGHT DECISIONS. WELL, I THINK OUR STUDIES MAY HAVE FAILED US, MISSED THE MARK A BIT ON, ON ON THIS BECAUSE WE CERTAINLY DIDN'T PLAN ON EVERYTHING HAPPENING BECAUSE OF THE MARKET SITUATIONS. SO I MEAN, I WAS I WAS CONCERNED AND I BELIEVE I CAN SPEAK FOR SEVERAL OTHERS HERE. WHEN WE WERE FIRST ALERTED ABOUT THIS DISCUSSION, WE WERE HAVING A FUTURE LAND USE PLAN MEETING, AND THIS WAS KIND OF A COINCIDENTAL DISCUSSION THAT POPPED UP AND SAID, WE ARE APPROACHING OR EXTENDING CAPACITY ON THE ROADS AND INFRASTRUCTURE. SO IF WE HAD NOT HAD THAT COINCIDENTAL DISCUSSION, YOU KNOW, WOULD WOULD THE ISSUE HAVE SURFACED? I DON'T KNOW. YOU KNOW WHAT? WHAT CAN WE DO TO ENSURE THAT WE NEVER AGAIN UNKNOWINGLY REACH THE POINT THAT WE NEED TO REACT, AS WITH A MORATORIUM, RATHER THAN STAY AHEAD WITH A PLAN. SO I DON'T KNOW WHERE WE ARE IN TERMS OF OUR ABILITY TO DO THAT. AND I'M NOT TRYING TO POINT FINGERS. I'M JUST SAYING THAT THAT WE HAVE REACHED THIS POINT WHERE WE'RE CONSIDERING A MORATORIUM AND IT'S JUST AGGRAVATING, AS CAN BE TO ME, THAT WE'VE HAD TO TO GET TO THIS POINT. AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE ARE WHERE WE ARE. I THINK A PAUSE, HOWEVER LONG PEOPLE DECIDE THEY WANT TO PAUSE FOR THE STAFF TO CONSIDER SOME OF THESE THINGS IS APPROPRIATE. AND THEN I HOPE WE CAN MOVE ON AT SOME POINT. SO THANK YOU, MR. GRISWOLD. ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANYTHING THEY'D LIKE TO SAY? I HAVE A COMMENT, PLEASE. SINCE I WAS THE ONE WHO ASKED ABOUT THE CAPACITY AND SO FORTH DURING THAT WORK SESSION I BELIEVE I WOULD HAVE ASKED THAT QUESTION LATER HAD IT NOT COME UP DURING THAT. SO IT WAS SOMETHING FRONT OF MINE THAT HAS BEEN SO IT WASN'T COINCIDENTAL. IT JUST WAS TIMING. SO WELL, OUR DISCUSSION THAT WAS ABOUT LAND USE. SO IT WASN'T A FOREIGN COUSIN TO WHAT YOU WERE ALREADY BROUGHT UP, RIGHT? RIGHT. I MEAN, BUT AGAIN, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I MEAN, I WOULD HAVE EVENTUALLY BROUGHT THAT TO THE FOREFRONT AT SOME POINT. I DO THINK, THOUGH, IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT THAT OVER THE COURSE OF A DECADE, WE HAVE BEEN WORKING OFF OF A DOWNTOWN MASTER PLAN THAT HAS DONE EXACTLY WHAT THAT PLAN WAS DRIVEN TO DO THAT HAD INVOLVEMENT OF MULTIPLE STAKEHOLDERS OVER A VERY LONG COURSE OF TIME TO DEVELOP. BUT WHERE WE ARE IS WE'RE FINDING THAT THE MARKET FACTORS ARE NOT TYPICAL MARKET FACTORS. WE HAVE AN AREA THAT IS UNDER AN OPPORTUNITY ZONE. AND SO THAT COMPOUNDS THE MARKET IN A WAY THAT WE AREN'T SEEING IN OTHER ASPECTS OF TOWN. ADDITIONALLY, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THIS MORATORIUM IS A NARROWLY FOCUSED MORATORIUM ON HIGH DENSITY, WHICH WOULD HAVE THE GREATEST IMPACTS ON KEY ELEMENTS THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED THIS EVENING, WHICH ARE SEWER TRAFFIC, ZONING AND STORMWATER. IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE KNOW THAT WE STATE THAT THIS IS NOT AN AFFRONT OF BUSINESS IN THE CITY OF AUBURN. I THINK THIS COUNCIL HAS PROVEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT WE VALUE OUR BUSINESSES, OUR INDUSTRIES, AND WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO THRIVE. BUT THIS IS BECAUSE WE DO. I PERSONALLY FEEL THAT BUSINESS IS THE BACKBONE OF THIS COMMUNITY ALONG WITH OUR PEOPLE. SO I JUST WANT IT TO BE STATED THAT THIS IS A NARROWLY FOCUSED ORDINANCE THAT'S IN FRONT OF US, [01:25:08] AND IT'S ABOUT DENSITY AND ITS IMPACT MOVING FORWARD. AND WE'VE REACHED A CAPACITY THAT WE NEED TO REEVALUATE. AND SO THAT REEVALUATION IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT AND CONSIDERING, AND I THINK GIVING STAFF THE TIME AND ABILITY TO TO LOOK AT THOSE IS IS KEY AND IMPORTANT. AND I WOULD SAY THAT 18 MONTHS IS IT FEELS LIKE A LONG TIME, BUT WE'VE HEARD MULTIPLE STAFF MEMBERS MENTIONED 12 MONTHS. THAT'S 12 MONTHS TO GET THE STUDIES DONE. THEN WE HAVE TO HAVE THE CONVERSATIONS, AND THEN WE HAVE TO PUT IT PEN TO PAPER AND ACTUALLY FIND THE SOLUTIONS. SO IF 18 MONTHS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DIGEST, THEN I WOULD SAY WE LOOK AT SOMETHING LIKE 14 TO 15 MONTHS, BUT I THINK 12 MONTHS IS STILL TOO SHORT OF A TIME FRAME SINCE WE'VE HEARD FROM STAFF. THOSE ARE MY COMMENTS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE? JUST A VERY SHORT COMMENT. I THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD FAITH EFFORT TO SAY 12 MONTHS BECAUSE WE CAN EXTEND IT, BUT IF WE FEEL THE HEAT OF THAT TIME PERIOD, THEN WE MIGHT GET IT DONE. YES, SIR. YOU ALSO HAVE THE ABILITY. JUST AS YOU CAN CANCEL ONE EARLY. YOU CAN EXTEND IT MONTHS IN ADVANCE. IF YOU GOT NINE MONTHS IN AND AND SAW BASED ON WHAT YOU'RE SEEING THAT YOU HAD CONCERNS ABOUT A 12 MONTH TIME. YOU'VE GOT FLEXIBILITY IN WHICH WAY AS THE GOVERNING BODY. I AGREE WITH SONNY. I THINK 12 MONTHS IS THE WAY TO GO. AND IF YOU GET TO THE 12 MONTH PERIOD, 11 MONTH PERIOD, YOU SEE YOU'RE NOT MEETING YOUR GOALS. YOU WANT TO GET TO GET FINISHED. YOU PUSH IT OUT AGAIN. IF YOU HAVE TO, I CERTAINLY HOPE WE DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT. I DON'T LIKE THE WORD MORATORIUM. I HATE TO USE IT IN THIS TYPE SITUATION. BUT AS FAR AS THE TRAFFIC GOES, I TRAFFIC'S BEEN BAD DOWN THERE ALL MY LIFE, AND I'VE BEEN HERE 60 YEARS. THEY USED TO FIGHT OVER TRAFFIC SPACES, NOW LITERALLY FIGHT OVER TRAFFIC SPACES IN EARLY 60S. I KNOW BECAUSE MY DAD WAS ONE OF THEM DOING THE FIGHTING. SO IT'S I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE TRAFFIC. I MEAN, LIKE I SAID BEFORE, THE HORSE IS OUT OF THE BARN ON THAT ONE. YOU SAW THE TRAFFIC FROM DOWNTOWN AUBURN. I WANT TO I WANT TO MEET YOU BECAUSE THAT'S. YOU GOT SOMETHING GOING ON. I'LL PIGGYBACK TO A LITTLE BIT OFF CHIEF, AND I JUST, YOU KNOW, MORATORIUM IS NOT NECESSARILY MY PREFERRED TOOL TO USE IT, BUT TO USE HERE. BUT OBVIOUSLY, WITH THE CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN PRESENTED TO US BY STAFF, I THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE TO TAKE THE PAUSE AND AND LOOK AND STUDY THESE ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT FORTH TO US, ESPECIALLY TO ME, REGARDING SEWER CAPACITY. I THINK THAT'S A A DRIVING. SO I CERTAINLY SUPPORT I THINK THE NEXT 12 MONTHS, I THINK 12 MONTHS IS AN APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF TIME. I THINK WE SHOULD, AND IT SOUNDS LIKE STAFF IS PREPARED AND READY TO STUDY THESE ISSUES. WE SHOULD BE LASER FOCUSED ON THESE ISSUES OVER THE NEXT 12 MONTHS TO BRING FORTH AS MUCH AS WE CAN DATA THAT WE CAN SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGE OUR STAFF TO CHALLENGE THE DATA THAT IS BROUGHT FORTH AND MAKE SURE WE'RE THINKING THROUGH EVERY SCENARIO. I KNOW THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE, BUT WE'VE GOT A LOT OF STAKEHOLDERS, A LOT OF FOLKS IN THIS COMMUNITY THAT CAN HELP WITH THIS PROCESS, AND I ENCOURAGE US TO BE ENGAGED WITH THOSE FOLKS THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS. AND AND I HOPE THAT WE AS A COUNCIL RECEIVE, IF IT'S MONTHLY, BI MONTHLY, WHATEVER IT NEEDS TO BE, UPDATES ON THIS PROCESS, I THINK WE NEED TO BE LASER FOCUSED ON ON DOING THAT AND USING EVERY AVAILABLE RESOURCE TO US TO TO HELP SHAPE THE FUTURE OF THIS AREA. HELP SHAPE THE FUTURE OF AUBURN AND JUST PROVIDE A FAIR SOLUTION FOR ALL THE PARTIES THAT ARE INVOLVED. SO YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, IT'S NOT MY PREFERRED TOOL, BUT I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND WHERE STAFF IS COMING FROM. AND I HOPE THAT HOPE IT MAY BE THE LAST TIME WE HAVE TO USE THE WORD MORATORIUM. I THINK A LOT OF US WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT NOBODY CAN PREDICT THE FUTURE AND SAY THAT, BUT I WOULD LOVE TO TO KNOW THAT WE WE TOOK THE TIME AND UNDERSTOOD AND CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY TO, TO MAKE THIS WORK FOR EVERYBODY GOING FORWARD. ANYONE ELSE? YEAH. MR. MAYOR, PLEASE. RELATIVELY QUIET TONIGHT. I'M SOMEBODY WHO TRIES TO STAY IN MY LANE. AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF WARD SIX, AND I THINK FOR THE FOR ALL OF US AS REPRESENTATIVES, WE SEE AND READ AND PARTICIPATE IN REGULAR CITIZEN SURVEYS AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN IN MY TENURE HERE ON COUNCIL, THE TWO MAJOR CONCERNS OF CITIZENS RESPONDING TO THAT SURVEY IS [01:30:04] THEIR CONCERNS OF THE CITY INFRASTRUCTURE AND CONCERNS OF TRAFFIC. AND AS I AND AND AS A RESULT OF THAT, WHEN I'M ASKED ABOUT WHAT I SHOULD REPRESENT IN TERMS OF THE PRIORITIES OF THIS COUNCIL, THOSE THOSE ARE THE ISSUES THAT COME UP AGAIN FOR ME BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE I'M STAYING IN MY LANE REPRESENTING THE COMMUNITY HERE. I'M VERY THANKFUL THAT WE'VE GOT SUCH TALENTED AND QUALIFIED STAFF THAT CAN BRING THESE CONCERNS TO US, STAYING WITHIN THEIR LANES AS WELL. AND I JUST FEEL LIKE I'M CONFIDENT THAT PRUDENCE IN THIS CASE IS FRONT AND CENTER. AND SO FOR THAT REASON, I'LL BE SUPPORTIVE OF THE THE CONCEPT OF A PAUSE. THANK YOU. BOB. ANYONE ELSE? YES. I BELIEVE I BROUGHT UP POSSIBLY AMENDING THE ORDINANCE TO BRING THAT DATE DOWN TO TO 12 MONTHS. I'VE. I HAVE ONE QUESTION ABOUT THAT. MAYOR PRO TEM WITTEN DID BRING UP THAT WHEN WE'RE THINKING ABOUT SOLUTIONS AND TRYING TO COME UP WITH WITH, WITH PUTTING PEN TO PAPER THAT MIGHT PUSH US OUT A LITTLE BIT FURTHER. ONE THING I WOULD STILL LIKE TO STAY WITH THE 12 MONTHS, BUT ONE THING THAT I WOULD LIKE TO FOR US TO DO IS AS WE RECEIVE WEEKLY MONTHLY UPDATES IF ANY, IF AT ANY PERIOD OF TIME DURING THIS MORATORIUM THAT WE THAT WE MAY SEE THAT PUSHING THAT DATE OUT A MONTH OR SO IS NECESSARY. I WOULD LIKE TO ENCOURAGE THE COUNCIL TO GO AHEAD AND DO THAT ON THE FRONT END. I FEEL LIKE AT THIS THIS TOOL, ONE OF THE MOST DAMAGING ASPECTS OF IT IS, IS IT PROVIDES UNCERTAINTY IN THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY IN ANY WAY THAT WE CAN LIMIT THAT UNCERTAINTY WHETHER THAT BE BY BY A TIME FRAME. THAT'S REALLY THE BEST WAY THAT WE CAN DO IT IS THE TIME FRAME. I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD LOOK TO DO. SO FROM PROCEDURALLY. MEGAN, SHOULD I GO AHEAD BEFORE WE HAVE ANY OTHER CONVERSATIONS? SHOULD I GO AHEAD AND PROPOSE AN AMENDMENT RIGHT NOW? IF YOU WANT TO AMEND THE TIMELINE, THEN PLEASE GO AHEAD AND DO SO. THIS WAY. I'VE GOT SOME COMMENTS TO MAKE AND THEN WE'LL MOVE INTO THAT, IF THAT'S ALL RIGHT. I'LL WAIT FOR YOU. IS THAT OKAY? SURE. BECAUSE WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. WELL, BUT YOU'LL NEED TO AMEND IT BEFORE YOU DEAL WITH THE MOTION. AND SECOND, IF THAT'S WHAT THE COUNCIL DECIDES TO DO, ANY AMENDMENTS YOU'LL DEAL WITH FOR JUST A MINUTE. I'LL TURN IT BACK OVER TO YOU. JUST BEFORE YOU SAY YES, MA'AM, I DON'T WANT TO BE THE ONLY ONE ON THE COUNCIL THAT DON'T SAY NOTHING ABOUT THE MORATORIUM. SO I JUST WANT TO SAY, YOU KNOW, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT IN THE 12 MONTHS. SEEMS PRETTY ACCURATE. OR GOOD. I GUESS TEMPORARY SOLUTION. IF IF IT'S VOTED ON THAT, WE SHOULD DO THIS, AND I I'M BASICALLY. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE FROM FROM ALL OF THE STUDIES THAT WE DO. I'M REALLY, REALLY WANTING TO SEE THE TRAFFIC STUDY BECAUSE, I MEAN, I JUST THINK THAT'S THE MOST THAT EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT. EVEN EVEN, YOU KNOW, WHEN PEOPLE COME TO ME AND THEY'LL BE TALKING ABOUT THE TRAFFIC, THE TRAFFIC, THE TRAFFIC, AND BEING THAT WE HAVE A TRAIN THAT RUNS IN OUR CITY THAT PUTS A LOT OF STRAIN ON A LOT OF THE TRAFFIC ISSUES. SO THAT'S THE REASON WHY I'M JUST CURIOUS TO SEE, ESPECIALLY ON THE WEST SIDE. I DON'T KNOW HOW BACKED UP IT IT CAN BE ON OTHER AREAS OF THE CITY WHERE THE TRAINS RUN. BUT ON THE, ON THE WEST SIDE OVER THERE IS WHERE THE UNIVERSITY IS ACTUALLY AT. SO THAT THAT THAT'S A REALLY, REALLY BAD AREA. AND IF WE CONTINUE TO BUILD AND, AND SOMEBODY WAS TALKING ABOUT ADDITIONAL 2 OR 300 BEDS AND ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF. SO THAT'S GOING TO PUT A EVEN THOUGH IT'S IN WALKING DISTANCE BUT STILL, AT THE END OF THE DAY, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO STILL CHOOSE TO USE THEIR CARS AND STUFF. [01:35:02] SO I WOULD LIKE TO REALLY SEE WHAT THE WHAT THE TRAFFIC STUDY AND HOW IT'S GOING TO AFFECT AND HOW YOU CAN MAKE ANY TYPE OF CHANGES TO TO, YOU KNOW, HOWEVER IT COMES OUT. SO THAT THAT'S MY MOST CONCERN. I UNDERSTAND THE SEWER, I UNDERSTAND STORMWATER AND THE PLANNING AND ZONING OF ALL OF THIS, BUT THAT TRAFFIC STUDY IS SOMETHING THAT REALLY, REALLY NEEDS TO HAPPEN, AND IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN THROUGHOUT THE CITY, BUT ESPECIALLY ON THE, ON THE, IN THE AREA THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. SO I JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO SAY SOMETHING TONIGHT. AND WHAT DID THAT BUG GO TOWARDS? OH OKAY. YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT OUR AGENDA TONIGHT AND LATER ON IN RESOLUTIONS, WE'LL BE LOOKING AT A COUPLE OF COMPANIES THAT ARE MAKING SIGNIFICANT IFICANT FINANCIAL INVESTMENTS OR INDUSTRIES, ROCHE AND POSH AND SHINHWA. IN FACT, SHINHWA WAS GOING TO MAKE AN INVESTMENT OF 114 MILLION, AND NOW THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE AN INVESTMENT OF 210 MILLION. WE'VE ALSO GOT AN ITEM WHERE WE'RE IMPROVING OUR SOFTBALL COMPLEX TO MAKE IT MORE USABLE MORE OFTEN. SO WE CAN DO SO. WE CAN LET OUR FOLKS PLAY ON IT MORE, AS WELL AS ATTRACT OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE TO COME TO OUR COMMUNITY ON WEEKENDS. AND WE'RE TAKING A PRACTICE FIELD AT THE SOCCER COMPLEX, AND WE'RE TRYING TO TURN IT INTO A FIELD THAT CAN BE USED MORE OFTEN, AGAIN, WITH LIGHTS AND TURF. YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT WE'VE GOT A LOT OF GOOD THINGS GOING ON IN AUBURN. AND I'M LIKE MANY OF THESE PEOPLE UP HERE. THE WORD MORATORIUM IS VERY DIFFICULT WORD FOR ME TO TO DEAL WITH. AND THIS ISN'T MY FIRST RODEO WITH THIS CONCEPT. I APPRECIATE OUR BUSINESS COMMUNITY AND OUR DEVELOPMENT OF COMMUNITY. THEY HAVE CERTAINLY MADE INVESTMENTS AND TAKING RISK. THAT HAS CHANGED AUBURN. AND AND I FIRMLY BELIEVE MOST OF THAT CHANGE HAS BEEN FOR AUBURN'S BETTERMENT. AND IT HAS OFFERED LIFESTYLE AMENITIES AND OPPORTUNITIES FOR OUR CITIZENS. THAT WOULDN'T BE HERE WITHOUT THOSE INVESTMENTS IN OUR COMMUNITY. AND I'M GRATEFUL FOR THAT. AND I'M GRATEFUL FOR THE PEOPLE WHO'VE MADE INVESTMENTS IN THIS, IN THIS SIDE OF OUR DOWNTOWN. THERE WAS A CONSCIOUS EFFORT BY THE LEADERSHIP IN THOSE DAYS THAT HAD A LOT OF FEEDBACK FROM A LOT OF DIFFERENT STAKEHOLDERS IN THE COMMUNITY THAT STUDENTS SHOULD LIVE CLOSER TO CAMPUS AND THEY SHOULD LIVE CLOSER TO DOWNTOWN. AND THEY SHOULD IT SHOULD BE EASIER FOR THEM TO GET AROUND EVERY DAY. AND THAT'S WHY THE DECISION WAS MADE TO INCREASE THE DENSITY. AND BY GOODNESS, IT WORKED. AND THEY CAME. AND OF COURSE, WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE WORD OPPORTUNITY ZONE MEANT. THAT WAS NEVER PART OF ANY OF THOSE DISCUSSIONS. AND BUT HERE WE ARE TODAY, AND OUR STAFF HAS BROUGHT TO US THROUGH OUR QUESTIONS AND CURIOSITY THAT THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S OVER HERE BECAUSE OF THE THE QUICKNESS AND THE AND THE INTENSITY OF THE GROWTH. AND. AS I TOLD SOMEBODY TODAY, I'VE NEVER BEEN UNDERGROUND IN AUBURN. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THOSE PIPES LOOK LIKE. I DON'T KNOW WHERE ALL THAT STORMWATER GOES. I JUST HOPE IT GETS THROUGH THE LITTLE CRACKS AND GETS DOWN INTO THE UNDER OUR ROADS. BUT I DO KNOW I TRUST THE PEOPLE THAT WORK HERE. I TRUST THEIR EDUCATION. I TRUST THEIR DAILY PRACTICE. I TRUST THEIR CERTIFICATION. I TRUST THEIR WHAT THEY'RE GIVING US IS GUIDANCE AND CONCERN. AND SO I BELIEVE STOPPING FOR 12 MONTHS. AND I WILL AGREE WITH TYLER, I BELIEVE 12 MONTHS IS A GOOD TIME TO DO IS IS THE PRUDENT THING FOR US TO DO FOR OUR FUTURE SO WE CAN COME BACK IN 12 MONTHS AND HOPEFULLY CONTINUE TO BUILD AND CONTINUE TO PROVIDE GREAT HOUSING IN THIS SIDE OF TOWN AND DO THE KIND OF THINGS THAT MAKE AUBURN A BETTER PLACE FOR OUR FUTURE. I KNOW THIS DOESN'T TASTE GOOD TO SOME PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM, AND I RESPECT THAT. BUT I DO BELIEVE IT'S THE BEST DECISION FOR ALL OF AUBURN'S FUTURE. SO WITH THAT, WE DO HAVE A MOTION. AND SECOND, CORRECT. SO WE'LL YOU JUST HAVE A MAIN MOTION. YOU WOULD NEED AN AMENDMENT IF IF COUNCILMAN ADAMS IS GOING TO MAKE ONE FOR THE DATE. YES. I MOVE TO AMEND SECTION THREE ON PAGE TWO OF THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE TO REMOVE THE DATE MAY 31ST, 2027, AND INSERT THE DATE NOVEMBER 30TH, 2026, IN ITS PLACE, WITH THE REMAINDER OF SECTION THREE LEFT UNCHANGED. SECOND. OKAY, WE HAVE A MOTION. AND SECOND BASICALLY TO CONSIDER A 12 MONTH MORATORIUM, AS OPPOSED TO AN 18 MONTH WITH A DATE OF NOVEMBER THE 30TH, 2026. ALL RIGHT. SO ANY DISCUSSION OR QUESTIONS ON THAT? OKAY. WOULD THIS BE A ROLL CALL OR JUST GO AHEAD AND DO THAT FOR SAFE SAKE. [01:40:04] SO YOU'RE JUST VOTING ON THE ON THE AMENDMENT. WE'RE JUST VOTING ON THE AMENDMENT OKAY. LINDSAY ADAMS. YES. KOBLENZ. YES, MA'AM. DAWSON. YES, MA'AM. GRISWOLD. YES, MA'AM. YES, MA'AM. PARSONS. YES. TAYLOR. YES. WHITTON. YES. ANDERS. YES. ALL RIGHT, SO NOW YOU'RE ON THE MAIN MOTION, AS AMENDED. OKAY. ALL RIGHT, SO WE NEED TO MAKE THAT MOTION. NO, NO, NO, YOU'RE JUST WE'RE GOOD WITH THAT. SO HAVE FURTHER DISCUSSION AND VOTE. ALL RIGHT. SO ANY DISCUSSION WHERE WE ARE IS EVERYBODY OKAY. WE ARE EVERYBODY READY TO VOTE. WE HAVE AN AMENDED ORDINANCE HERE. I WANT TO AGREE. I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT THERE'S A LOT OF COMMUNICATION TO THE COUNCIL THAT WE'RE WELL AWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON, AND THAT WE DON'T REACH THAT 11 MONTH AND BE TOTALLY SURPRISED THAT WE KNOW THAT, HEY, WE'RE IN A GOOD PLACE AND WE'RE READY TO EITHER STOP OR WE NEED TO EXTEND. I THINK THAT NONE OF THAT SHOULD EVER BE A SURPRISE TO ANY OF US. OKAY. IF IT IS, IT'S ON US. IF IT IS, I LIKE THAT. SO THAT'S. THAT WON'T HAPPEN. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WE DO HAVE A MOTION. SECOND. SO, LINDSAY, THIS WILL BE VOTING ON THE ENTIRE ORDINANCE, AS AMENDED. ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. PARSONS. YES. TAYLOR. YES. YES. ADAMS. YES. KOBLENZ. YES, MA'AM. DAWSON. YES, MA'AM. GRISWOLD. YES, MA'AM. YES, MA'AM. YES. ALL RIGHT, SO THE ORDINANCE IS ADOPTED, AS AMENDED. ALL RIGHT. NOW WE WILL MOVE FORWARD. YOU'RE TAKING AN ITEM OUT OF ORDER FROM A RESOLUTION, BECAUSE IT'S DEALING WITH THE LAND USE PLAN, AS DISCUSSED DURING COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ITEM TEN F AUTHORIZES CHANGES TO THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN AS PROPOSED IN GROWTH CHANGE NUMBER EIGHT, WHICH IS LOCATED ON THE NORTH SIDE OF WEST FARMVILLE ROAD BETWEEN PEPPERWOOD TRAIL AND [10.f. Future Land Use Plan. Growth Change #8. Northside of West Farmville Road between Pepperwood Trail and Auburn Lakes Road. Public hearing recommended.] AUBURN LAKES ROAD. IF ADOPTED, THIS CHANGE WOULD WOULD CHANGE THE LAND USE FROM RURAL TO LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL SLASH MEDIAN, MEDIUM INTENSITY RESIDENTIAL OR MEDIUM INTENSITY MIXED USE. THE PLANNING COMMISSION UNANIMOUSLY RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THIS CHANGE AT THEIR NOVEMBER 13TH MEETING, AND A PUBLIC HEARING IS RECOMMENDED. I'LL EXPLAIN. STATE LAW SAYS FOR LAND USE CHANGES, THERE NEEDS TO BE A PUBLIC HEARING. THERE WAS ALREADY ONE AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING AND SO THAT COUNTS. BUT WE PUT RECOMMENDED TO GIVE THAT OPPORTUNITY TO YOU. IT'S UP TO YOU. I WOULD SUPPORT THAT. OKAY. EVERYBODY GOOD. WE'LL CONTINUE WITH PUBLIC HERE. OKAY. SO I NEED A MOTION FOR APPROVAL. SECOND. ALL RIGHT. THIS IS AN ORDINANCE, RIGHT? DO WE JUST KNOW IT'S A RESOLUTION? YOU'RE JUST OUT OF ORDER. THAT'S RIGHT. SO YOU DON'T NEED UNANIMOUS CONSENT. YOU'VE GOT A MOTION AND A SECOND AND OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. SECOND, I'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. IF YOU'D LIKE TO ADDRESS THE COUNCIL, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. FOR THE RECORD, YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO SPEAK TO THE COUNCIL. REGARDING THE LAND USE. OKAY. YES, SIR. EVENING. LEE THARP, GODREJ ENGINEERING, MYSELF, THE APPLICANT. I JUST WANTED TO SAY YOU'RE PROBABLY GOING TO BE HEARING FROM ME A GOOD BIT ON THE NEXT COUPLE OF AGENDA ITEMS. I APPRECIATE THIS GETTING MOVED EARLIER IN THE AGENDA. AS WAS MOVED EARLIER IN THE MEETING, I THINK THAT'S GOING TO REALLY HELP KIND OF SHAPE THE NEXT COUPLE OF AGENDA ITEMS. HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT. BUT WE'RE OBVIOUSLY IN CONCURRENCE WITH THE PROPOSED UNANIMOUS FUTURE LAND USE PLAN OF THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY. I THINK IT MAKES SENSE WITH WHERE IT IS CONSIDERING THE ADJACENT DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE AROUND IT THAT HAVE BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME, SCHOOLS ACROSS THE STREET. AND CONSIDERING WE'RE KIND OF AT THE END OF THE DEVELOPMENT POTENTIAL OF THAT STRIP OF FARM RIGHT THERE. SO AGAIN. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YES, SIR. ANYONE ELSE? OKAY. WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. DISCUSSIONS OR QUESTIONS FROM THE COUNCIL. THE REASON THAT WE ASKED AMANDA THIS BACK TO PLANNING WAS AT THE TIME THAT WE HAD THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN TO EVALUATE, WE DID NOT HAVE UPDATED INFORMATION ABOUT THE TIMELINE OF OF IMPROVING NORTH DONOHUE AND FARMVILLE. WE HAVE RECEIVED THAT INFORMATION, WHICH WAS THE REASON IT WENT BACK. WE REQUESTED IT TO GO BACK TO PLANNING. JUST A LITTLE HISTORY FOR WHAT OR HOW WE GOT HERE. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THOUGHTS? I HAVE A QUESTION. YES, PLEASE. ON THIS, ON THE REVISED MAP WE'VE GOT HERE THERE IS CURRENTLY COMMERCIAL TO THE EAST OF AUBURN LAKES ROAD ALREADY. RIGHT. HOLD ON. HE'S GETTING YOUR MICROPHONE. THERE WE GO. THAT IS CORRECT. EVEN THOUGH THE LAND USE PLAN SAID RURAL. HOW DID WE GET TO THAT POINT? YEAH. GREAT. GREAT QUESTION. SO PART OF THE FUTURE LAND USE UPDATE. IF YOU REMEMBER, THERE WERE I THINK THREE CATEGORIES. [01:45:03] SO ONE WAS CORRECTIONS. ONE WAS KIND OF PROPOSALS. AND THEN I THINK ONE WAS LIKE THE EXISTING LAND USE. AND SO EVEN THOUGH I GUESS THIS WAS A PART OF THE PROPOSAL, BUT EAST OF AUBURN LAKES ROAD WAS REALLY JUST KIND OF CORRECTION TO MATCH WHAT THE CURRENT DEVELOPMENT IS. THERE IS EXISTING STORAGE UNITS OUT THERE. AND SO THEN JUST KIND OF BRINGING THAT ACROSS ON THE WEST SIDE, AUBURN LAKES ROAD AND KIND OF ADDING A HARD CORNER THERE FOR A NODE AND THEN JUST KIND OF HAVING THAT MATCH ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE DEVELOPMENT. SO FOR EAST OF AUBURN LAKES ROAD, THAT JUST WOULD HAVE COUNTED AS A CORRECTION TO THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN TO MATCH WHAT WAS ALREADY THE EXISTING DEVELOPMENT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANKS. CAN I PIGGYBACK ON THAT? THE IMPLICATION THERE IS THAT THIS IS A REACTIVE DOCUMENT, AND WE ARE MAKING A CONCERTED EFFORT THAT IT WILL BE A PROACTIVE DOCUMENT. IN OTHER WORDS, THIS WILL DETERMINE WHAT WE DO RATHER THAN BE CHANGED TO REFLECT WHAT WE DID. IS THAT FAIR TO SAY? THAT IS CORRECT. AND SO SOME OF THE SO SOME OF THE CONTRADICTIONS WHERE WE DID END UP MAKING THE CORRECTIONS AS A REACTION WERE MORE OF A RESULT OF THE EXISTING ZONING DISTRICT NOT MATCHING THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN. AND SO WE HAVE PLACES IN TOWN. I GUESS IT COMES UP A LOT IN WHERE THERE'S RED, WHERE THE DENSITY IS 16 DWELLING UNITS AN ACRE. BUT THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN SAYS NEIGHBORHOOD PRESERVATION. WE CANNOT CONSTRAIN AN APPLICANT'S DENSITY BASED ON THE FUTURE. LAND USE, IF THEY'RE ZONING BY RIGHT, ALLOWS THEM 16 DWELLING UNITS AN ACRE. IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT THAT WE PRACTICE. SO THAT IS HOW WE GET THESE AREAS WHERE THE CURRENT, THE CURRENT PROJECT AND THE LAND USE DOES NOT MATCH. I GUESS THERE'S OTHER AREAS ON A LESSER INTENSITY WHERE IT'S A NEIGHBORHOOD AND IT'S NEIGHBORHOOD PRESERVATION, BUT THERE MAY BE AN ISLAND. AND I GUESS I'M THINKING JUST KIND OF AT THE EDGE OF CROSS CREEK AND COTSWOLDS, THERE WAS A HOUSE THAT WAS ZONED. THE FUTURE LAND USE WAS RURAL, BUT IT WAS A HOUSE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE THERE WAS ALWAYS GOING TO BE HOUSES THERE. AND SO THAT WAS UPDATED TO NEIGHBORHOOD PRESERVATION AS WELL. AND SO I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT THE CONTRADICTIONS EXIST, WHERE THE ZONING DOESN'T NECESSARILY MATCH THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN. THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN IS AN ASPIRATIONAL DOCUMENT THAT SHOULD REFLECT WHAT THE CITY WANTS TO DO FROM A BUILD OUT STANDPOINT, TO MATCH WHAT THE UTILITIES CAN CAN SUPPORT, WHAT THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF THE ROADS, WATER AND SEWER CAN SUPPORT, AND ALSO WHERE WE SEE DENSITY GOING. AND SO THAT IS CORRECT. THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN IS ASPIRATIONAL. IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A PROACTIVE DOCUMENT OF WHERE WE WANT GROWTH TO BE. IT'S ALSO KIND OF TO YOUR POINT IS, WE'VE DE FACTO OPERATED FOR YEARS THAT IF THE COUNCIL AGREES TO SOMEBODY'S REZONING CHANGE, EVEN IF IT'S OUTSIDE OF THE LAND USE PLAN, THAT THE LAND USE MAP IS JUST KIND OF BEEN DE FACTO CHANGED OR AMENDED AT THAT TIME. AND WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ALIGN AND WITH THIS VERY CASE HERE IS, AND I THINK AS WE REWRITE THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND DO OTHER THINGS, WE'RE TRYING TO BE MUCH MORE INTENTIONAL ABOUT, YOU NEED A LAND USE PLAN, CHANGE THAT. THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN SAYS SOMETHING DIFFERENT, AND THE COUNCIL'S GOOD WITH IT. THE APPLICANT IS ASKING AND YOU CHANGE THE LAND USE. THEN ZONING THEN SHOULD MATCH THE LAND USE AS PART OF THAT PROCESS AND BE A LOT LESS CONFUSING. THAT'S I THINK WE'RE HEADED IN THAT DIRECTION. WITH JUSTICE ON BOARD AND HIS LEADERSHIP. WE'RE WORKING HARD TO ROW THE BOAT IN THAT DIRECTION. I JUST I GUESS I'M WRESTLING WITH THIS CONCEPT. THIS IS NOT DETERMINATIVE OF WHAT THE PLANNING DIRECTOR POINTED OUT IS THIS THIS ISN'T THE GOSPEL, WHETHER IT'S RIGHT OR WRONG. WE STILL HAVE FACTORS REZONING THAT DRIVES THIS, NOT THE DOCUMENT. AND SOMETIMES YOU ADOPT LAND USE WELL AHEAD OF THE ZONING CHANGES THAT THEN NEED TO FOLLOW IT. AND THAT'S WHERE THINGS GET CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE. RIGHT. AND SO WE'RE STRUGGLING TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND HOW WE APPROACH THIS. THAT'S ALL UNDERSTANDABLY SO. AND I THINK THAT'S WHY WE'RE TRYING TO GET MORE INTENTIONAL ABOUT. AND THIS IS ONE OF THE FIRST TIMES YOU'RE SEEING THIS IS TRYING TO GET THE LAND USE DEALT WITH BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY CONSIDER THE ZONING CHANGE ITEMS WHERE IT WOULD ALIGN. IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO THIS, IF YOU DECIDE TO TO CHANGE THIS LAND USE, THEN ZONING ACTIONS THAT YOU HAVE THAT FOLLOW THIS FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. YOU HAVE OTHER THINGS YOU GET TO CONSIDER, ESPECIALLY WITH THE PLANNED DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT. BUT THOSE THINGS WOULD BETTER ALIGN. THAT'S CORRECT. THANK YOU. IT WOULD. IT WOULD BE FAIR TO SAY THAT ADOPTING THIS LAND USE CHANGE, EVEN IF THE PROJECT THAT FOLLOWS THIS OR DOESN'T PASS FOR SOME. IF IT DOESN'T PASS OR GO FORWARD, IT THAT THE LAND USE PLAN STAYS WHERE IT'S AT. SO IT COULD ENCOURAGE A FUTURE PROJECT OF SIMILAR NATURE IN THAT IN THAT SAME AREA, IF THAT'S THE CASE. SO WE'RE CHANGING AN IDEA FROM RURAL TO THIS, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE PROJECT THAT FOLLOWS. CORRECT. AND SO THE, THE, THE RECOMMENDATION THAT STAFF PUT FORWARD TO CHANGE THIS LAND USE PLAN HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS PROJECT. [01:50:04] I GUESS THE PROJECT PROVED A LOT OF QUESTIONS ANSWERED, A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT STAFF HAD ABOUT THE PROPERTY. INITIALLY, THIS PROPERTY WAS LEFT ROLE IN THE FUTURE LAND USE UPDATE BECAUSE WE HAD A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE UTILITIES. AND SO THERE'S A WATER TOWER THAT IS NEARBY IN PROXIMITY. SO WHAT THAT DOES TO RESIDENTIAL WATER PRESSURE AND IMMEDIATE PROXIMITY LEFT STAFF WITH A LOT OF QUESTIONS. THERE WAS ALSO THE QUESTION ABOUT THE ACCESS AND VIABILITY OF UTILITIES ON THE PROPERTY. AND SO THERE WERE QUESTIONS ABOUT, COULD I ASK THOSE PROPERTY OWNERS AS GAIN EASEMENTS FROM ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS TO PROVIDE TO PROVIDE THOSE UTILITIES? AND SO THOSE ARE ALL QUESTIONS THAT WERE ANSWERED IN THIS PROJECTS, AS IN THE TIME THAT WE WERE REVIEWING THIS, THAT ANSWERED A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS. SO FOR THE FOR THE LONGEST TIME, THIS WAS LEFT RULE BECAUSE WE HAD A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT UTILITIES AND IF THEY WERE POSSIBLE. AND SO THIS PROJECT ANSWERED A LOT OF THOSE QUESTIONS AND PROVED THAT THIS PROJECT, THAT THIS PROPERTY WAS VIABLE FOR DEVELOPMENT. AND THAT REMAINS TRUE WHETHER OR NOT THIS PROJECT MOVES FORWARD OR DOESN'T. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS. OKAY. JUST A VOICE VOTE ON THIS ONE BECAUSE IT'S A RESOLUTION. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO WE HAVE MOTION SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. ARE ANY OPPOSED. MOTION CARRIES. OKAY. NOW WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK TO OUR ORDINANCE ITEM ITEM 9B1 IS A REQUEST TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 53.5 ACRES OF [9.b.1.Greenwood Village Pre-zoning DDH. Pre-zone approximately 53.5 acres. Property located on West Farmville Road between Pepperwood Trail and Auburn Lake Road. Public hearing required. Postponed from October 21, 2025.] PROPERTY LOCATED ON WEST FARMVILLE ROAD BETWEEN PEPPERWOOD TRAIL AND AUBURN LAKES ROAD TO DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT HOUSING FOR A PROJECT KNOWN AS GREENWOOD VILLAGE. THE PLANNING COMMISSION DID NOT RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THIS REQUEST BY A VOTE OF 2 TO 7 AT ITS AUGUST 14TH MEETING. THIS ITEM WAS POSTPONED FROM THE OCTOBER 21ST MEETING. A MOTION IS NEEDED AND A PUBLIC HEARING IS REQUIRED. MOVE FOR APPROVAL BECAUSE WE'VE ALREADY SEEN. CORRECT? YES. OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION. WE HAVE A SECOND. OKAY. WE HAVE A MOTION. AND SECOND. I'LL GO AHEAD AND OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. IF YOU'D LIKE TO ADDRESS CITY COUNCIL, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. AND YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO SPEAK TO THE COUNCIL. GOOD EVENING AGAIN, LEE THARP, CADRE ENGINEERING. A COUPLE OF THINGS I WANTED TO POINT OUT AGAIN, APPRECIATE THE CONSIDERATION OF THE PROJECT. ONE THING THAT OF PARTICULAR NOTE THAT I'M SURE YOU NOTICED WAS THE AUGUST PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING WHEN THIS WAS UP FOR APPROVAL ORIGINALLY FOR THE RECOMMENDATION. YOU GUYS, THEY VOTED NO ON THE REZONE TO DDH. INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, WHICH WE CAN GET INTO AT THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM. THEY VOTED IN THE AFFIRMATIVE FOR THE PDC, WHICH WAS CONFUSING TO ALL OF US. BUT THE BACKSTORY BEHIND THAT IS PRIMARILY TO DO WITH THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN, WHICH YOU GUYS JUST VOTED TO AMEND. THE BACK STORY ON THIS. GOING BACK EVEN FURTHER, I THINK THIS WAS BROUGHT BEFORE YOU GUYS LIKE A YEAR AGO, MAYBE WHERE WE PULLED IT IN THE MEETING. THAT WAS PRIMARILY DUE TO THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN REMAINING RURAL AT THAT TIME. AND MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THE REASONING FOR THAT ORIGINALLY WAS PRIMARILY DUE TO INFRASTRUCTURE CONCERNS AROUND FARMVILLE ROAD, AND EVEN MORE SO THE INTERSECTION OF FARMVILLE AND NORTH DONAHUE DRIVE. WE HAVE WE BELIEVE WE SUFFICIENTLY ANSWERED SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS. WE'VE ALSO UPDATED THE PLANS ACCORDINGLY TO SOME OF THOSE CONCERNS. I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT A FEW OF THOSE FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. AND I KNOW I'M PROBABLY GOING TO RUN OUT OF TIME THE PUBLIC HEARING. SO IF THERE'S ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS AFTER THAT ABOUT SPECIFICS, HAPPY TO COME UP AND ANSWER ANY OF THOSE. AND I KNOW A LOT OF THOSE MAY BE DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM INFRASTRUCTURE IN PARTICULAR. LIKE I MENTIONED, THE INTERSECTION WORK AT NORTH DONAHUE DRIVE. I BELIEVE THIS WAS MENTIONED WITH THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT. BUT WE HAVE DEMONSTRATED AS A PART OF OUR PDG PACKET AGAIN, WITH THE LATER AGENDA ITEM THAT THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE FIRST PHASE IN PARTICULAR, WHICH WOULD BE ON THE WEST SIDE, WOULD NOT BE COMPLETE UNTIL AFTER THE PLANNED COMPLETION OF THE AN INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS AT FARMVILLE AND DONAHUE. WE'VE ALSO GOT THE PRO RATA SHARE PLUGGED IN TO THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT AS WELL, SO THAT WAS A BIG CONCERN. I KNOW THAT EVERYBODY HAD ALSO JUST THE TRAFFIC IN GENERAL ON FARMVILLE ROAD AS PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT. WE'RE PROPOSING TO MAKE INFRASTRUCTURE IMPROVEMENTS TO THAT IN PARTICULAR, OBVIOUSLY, TURN LANES INTO THE DEVELOPMENT. ONE MAJOR CHANGE THAT YOU GUYS WILL NOTICE ON THE SITE PLAN FOR MAYBE WHAT YOU SAW ORIGINALLY WAS AT ONE POINT WE HAD A CONNECTION FOR EACH PHASE OF THE DEVELOPMENT TO FARMVILLE ROAD DIRECTLY. THAT HAS CHANGED, PARTICULARLY ON THE WEST SIDE PEPPERWOOD TRAIL. AND UNFORTUNATELY, THE COUNTY ROAD NUMBER ESCAPES ME UP HERE. [01:55:03] BUT RIGHT THERE ON THE WEST SIDE OF DEVELOPMENT, CURRENTLY A DIRT ROAD, THE WEST SIDE OR THE FIRST PHASE OF DEVELOPMENT IS NOW GOING TO TAKE ACCESS OFF THE COUNTY ROAD. IT WILL BE IMPROVED APPROPRIATELY. SO THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY ONLY GOING TO HAVE ONE NEW CONNECTION ON FARMVILLE ROAD FOR THE FULL DEVELOPMENT AND THAT WILL BE ON THE EAST SIDE ALIGNING. THEREABOUTS WITH THE EXISTING CONNECTION TO WOODLAND PINES ELEMENTARY. THERE'S ALSO IN HERE A COUPLE OF COMMERCIAL OUTPARCELS. THERE'S PROBABLY SOME SPECIFIC QUESTIONS I CAN HELP ANSWER ON THAT. BUT ONE OF THE WE'RE PLANNING TO DEVELOP A RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT WITH THE OUTPARCELS TO COME AT A FUTURE DATE. THERE IS NOT. WE DON'T HAVE A PLANNED USE FOR THOSE COMMERCIAL OUTPARCELS AND WORKED INTO THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM. WE'VE PUT IN THERE THAT ALL THOSE POTENTIAL FUTURE USES WOULD HAVE TO COME BEFORE YOU AS A CONDITIONAL USE. IF THAT ALLEVIATES ANY CONCERNS. THERE'S ALSO A BIG CENTRAL PARK ASPECT OF THIS AS PART OF OUR OPEN SPACE. WE THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A BENEFIT TO THE COMMUNITY AND THE DEVELOPMENT IN PARTICULAR, TRY TO MAINTAIN AS MUCH NATURAL AREA AS WE POSSIBLY CAN. BUT AGAIN, THERE MAY BE SOME SPECIFICS ON THAT THAT I'M MISSING THAT I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE AFTER THE FACT. JUSTICE MENTIONED WATER AND SEWER IMPROVEMENTS. WE'VE WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO SECURE AT THIS POINT, VERBAL EASEMENTS FROM VERBAL DISCUSSIONS ON EASEMENTS THAT TO THE AFFIRMATIVE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT, PARTICULARLY FOR SEWER, WHICH IS GOING TO HAVE TO COME FROM OFF SITE THROUGH THE WOODLAND PINES ELEMENTARY PROPERTY. WE'VE BEEN WORKING REALLY WELL WITH THE SCHOOL BOARD ON THAT. TO DATE. SO NO CONCERNS ABOUT UTILITY CONNECTIONS IN THE FUTURE. I THINK THAT IS IT. BUT AGAIN, IF I'M MISSING SOMETHING, FEEL FREE TO GIVE ME A SHOUT. I APPRECIATE IT. ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT SCHOOL TRAFFIC AND AND FOLKS LEAVING THE NEIGHBORHOOD, GOING TO WORK AND FOLKS TRYING TO GET INTO WOODLAND PINES? ARE YOU? SO WE WE ANALYZED PART OF THAT IN THE TRAFFIC STUDY. AND DO I NEED TO BE ANSWERING QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW? YOU'RE FINE. WE PAUSE THE CLOCK. OKAY. I'LL ASK YOU A QUESTION. YOU'RE FINE. I TEND TO, YOU KNOW, NOT EXACTLY DO WELL ON PROCEDURE. SO I'M RIGHT THERE WITH YOU. THEY DON'T HAVE THE GAVEL. IT'S PRETTY SCARY. YEAH, I BELIEVE IT. I DON'T ENVY YOU. WE'VE ANALYZED THAT AS PART OF THE TRAFFIC STUDY. THE OTHER, THE BENEFIT TO THE CHANGES WE'VE MADE TO THE PLAN IN PARTICULAR, ARE WHERE WE ARE NOW PROPOSING WE GOT RID OF ONE OF THOSE ENTRIES. SO THE MAIN CONCERN IS GOING TO BE ON THE EAST ENTRY. THERE WILL BE SOME OVERLAP IN THE TIMING OF WHEN PEOPLE ARE LEAVING TO WORK IN THE MORNINGS AND OBVIOUSLY WHEN PEOPLE ARE COMING AND DROPPING SCHOOL OFF. I THINK A BIG BENEFIT TO THAT IS THE SCHOOL, THE DROP OFF TRAFFIC, WHICH IS MUCH HEAVIER THAN THE BUS TRAFFIC, ENTERS IN ON THE WEST SIDE WHERE WE NO LONGER HAVE A DRIVEWAY ALIGNING DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET. I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE A BIG DEAL TO AVOID ANY KIND OF POTENTIAL IMPACTS RELATED TO THAT. THE TIMING OF WOODLAND PONDS. AND AGAIN, I'M SITTING HERE. THAT'S A K-2 SCHOOL. I'M TRYING TO REMEMBER EXACTLY WHEN THEY START. 745 IS WHEN K-2 START HERE IN TOWN. SO THE PEAKS A LITTLE BIT LATER THAN WHAT PEOPLE ARE TYPICALLY LEAVING, BUT THERE IS SOME OVERLAP THERE. OKAY. AND THEN YOUR PARK AREA IS THAT YOUR IS THE HOA GOING TO MAINTAIN THAT? BUT YOU SAID THE PUBLIC WOULD BE ABLE TO USE IT. SO JUST. YES, SIR. AND I KNOW WE HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS WITH ALLISON, OUR PARKS AND REC DIRECTOR. I WAS I WAS JUST MAKING SURE YOU WERE THERE. ALLISON. I'M SORRY. I DIDN'T WANT TO CALL YOU OUT. I HAD A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THAT. AT ONE POINT, IT WAS. WE WERE CONSIDERING MAYBE A MORE PROMINENT PUBLIC ACCESS. I THINK IN OUR DISCUSSIONS WITH ALLISON AND JUSTICE, WE DECIDED THAT WASN'T APPROPRIATE. BUT THE THE PART WOULD BE PUBLIC ACCESS IS TAKEN ACCESS OFF OF A FUTURE PUBLIC STREET ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE DEVELOPMENT. AND IT WOULD BE MAINTAINED BY THE HOA. THAT WOULD BE DOCUMENTED IN THE THE FORMATION DOCUMENTS OF THE HOA. I'M SURE THERE WOULD PROBABLY NEED TO BE SOME KIND OF MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT BETWEEN HOA AND THE CITY. I MAY BE SPEAKING OUT OF TURN THERE, BUT YEAH, WE WOULDN'T REQUIRE ANYTHING OTHER THAN TYPICALLY ON THE PLAT. WE REQUIRE ON THE PLAT THAT THE HOA MAINTAIN JUST SO THAT IT'S MEMORIALIZED AND RUNS WITH THE LAND THAT'S RIGHT IN THE PARK WITH DEVIL IS OPEN SPACE FOR THE COMMUNITY, BUT ALSO PUBLIC ACCESS PLAYGROUND, A COUPLE OF LITTLE PAVILIONS AND THEN SOME MORE NATURE TRAIL KIND OF WALKS THROUGH THERE ON THAT LOW AREA. SO YOU THINK THE PEOPLE THAT MOVED TO THIS NEIGHBORHOOD ARE GOING TO BE OKAY IF THE JOHN Q PUBLIC SHOWS UP WITH THEIR CHILDREN AND WANT TO WALK AND PLAY? JUST JUST MAKING SURE WHILE WE'RE HERE. [02:00:01] WELL, THAT'S A FAIR QUESTION. WE WE THINK THAT THERE'S WE THINK IT WILL PRIMARILY BE USED BY THE NEIGHBORHOOD, OBVIOUSLY. AND THAT WAS PART OF THE DISCUSSIONS WITH ALLISON ABOUT WHERE THE PUBLIC ACCESS WOULD BE APPROPRIATELY OR BEST LOCATED. WE THINK WHERE WE'VE, WHERE WE'RE SHOWING IT IS PROBABLY GOING TO LEND ITSELF MORE TO IT BEING SET UP AS MORE OF A PRIVATE AMENITY. BUT IT CAN FUNCTION AS BOTH, I FEEL LIKE, IS THIS IS THIS OUT BY FARMVILLE ROAD OR IS IT BACKED BY THE THE LAKES ABOUT HALFWAY BACK, OR WHERE IS IT LOCATED? THE ACCESS PARK? THE WELL, THE PARK IS ACTUALLY THE WHOLE THING. THE ENTIRE CENTER OF THE DEVELOPMENT, IT SPLITS AND IT ACTUALLY IT WRAPS IN A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT PLACES BASED ON HOW THE SUBDIVISION LAYS OUT. WHAT DROVE YOUR DECISIONS TO CHANGE? WAS IT THE TRAFFIC TO CHANGE THE ACCESS ON THE WEST SIDE TO PEPPER TREE TRAIL PRIMARILY. IS TRAFFIC RELATED AND IMPACT TO EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE. IT MADE MORE SENSE ULTIMATELY WITH DISCUSSIONS WITH STAFF TO IMPROVE THAT EXISTING. WE'LL CALL IT A CURB CUT, BUT IT'S A COUNTY ROAD TO IMPROVE THAT RATHER THAN HAVE A SEPARATE ACCESS ON TO FARMVILLE ROAD, WHERE OBVIOUSLY THERE WERE SOME ORIGINAL CONCERNS ABOUT CONNECTIONS AND, AND THINGS LIKE THAT. I KNOW A LOT OF THOSE CONCERNS ARE PRIMARILY RELATED DIRECTLY TO THE INTERSECTION WHICH THOSE IMPROVEMENTS ARE HAPPENING AND BEING DONE BY THE CITY, KIND OF OUTSIDE OF THIS DEVELOPMENT. BUT SAME NUMBER OF LOTS, I BELIEVE WE REDUCED THEM BY FROM THE LAST TIME YOU SAW IT BY A FEW, BUT IT'S NOT SUBSTANTIAL. I THINK IT'S 146 LOTS AT THIS POINT. I BELIEVE WE HAD 160 SOMETHING MAYBE ORIGINALLY. SO THAT HAS COME DOWN. IT'S A LITTLE BIT LESS DENSE. THE TOTAL PROPOSED DENSITY I HAD IT WRITTEN DOWN AS 2.72 UNITS PER ACRE. WE'RE ASKING FOR RD, WHICH GETS TO 5.5. TOTAL ALLOWABLE. SO MUCH LESS DENSE THAN WHAT'S GOING TO BE ALLOWED UNDER THE RD ZONING. BUT WE ALSO DON'T REALLY BELIEVE THAT A WHOLE LOT MORE DENSITY IS VIABLE ON THAT PARTICULAR PIECE OF PROPERTY. AGAIN, I'LL REMIND THE COUNCIL TO THAT. GREAT QUESTIONS. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ZONING. AND A LOT OF THIS PERTAINS TO THE PLANNED DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT. THE NEXT ITEM. SO ALSO PLENTY OF TIME TO ASK QUESTIONS FURTHER ABOUT THE PLANNED DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT. THAT'S A THERE'S A LOT MORE DETAIL IN THAT PACKET AND EVERYTHING, BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT. AND I'LL ALSO REMIND YOU BECAUSE THIS IS A REZONING, EVERYTHING KIND OF HINGES ON EVERYTHING ELSE, INCLUDING THE ANNEXATION THAT FOLLOWS. AND SO EACH DECISION DECISION POINT COULD AFFECT THE NEXT COUPLE OF APPLICATIONS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. IT WOULD BE ALL OF IT TO PROCEED WITH THIS DEVELOPMENT, NOT JUST ANY ONE ITEM. SO AND IT'S UNUSUAL WITH A REZONING THAT IN A REZONING IF YOU DO ASPECTS OF THIS BUT THEN YOU DON'T ANNEX IT. I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU'VE ZONED ANYTHING. CORRECT. THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. SO IT'S VERY DIFFERENT WHEN YOU DO REZONING, JUST FYI. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, MR. THORPE? JUST ONE THAT YOU BOTH RAISED. WHAT DROVE YOUR DECISION TO MAKE IT A PUBLIC PARK? PART OF IT HAD TO DO WITH THE PD INCENTIVES AND EXCHANGES THAT SET UP IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE, AS OPPOSED TO A PRIVATE PARK. OH, CORRECT. YES, SIR. AND THAT'S PART OF WHAT'S LISTED IN THAT ORDINANCE RELATED TO THE PD INCENTIVES AND EXCHANGES AND JUSTICE. YOU MAKE IT CORRECT ME ON SOME OF THAT IF YOU'VE GOT SOME DETAIL THAT YOU COULD ADD THERE. YEAH. SO SO I GUESS KIND OF THE THINKING ON THAT, LIKE I SAID, A LOT OF THAT IS DRIVEN BY WHAT'S IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE THAT YOU CAN'T DEDICATE OPEN SPACE. I GUESS KIND OF THE COMPROMISE THAT WE LANDED ON, JUST KIND OF FROM A LIABILITY STANDPOINT, THAT IT DID MAKE SENSE THAT THE HOA OWNED IT. AND IF I GUESS IF IT WAS, IF IT DID WANT TO FUNCTION AS A PUBLIC PARK, I MEAN, THAT'S FINE, BUT NOT NECESSARILY ADVERTISED AS A PUBLIC PARK. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE COMPROMISED ON WAS THE FACILITIES IN THE PARK ITSELF. THERE WERE UPGRADED SIGNIFICANTLY. THERE WERE DIRECT RECOMMENDATIONS FROM STAFF FROM THE PARKS AND REC DIRECTOR ABOUT WHAT NEEDED TO BE INCLUDED. AND SO THERE WAS A VERY SIZABLE GAZEBO. THERE'S ALSO TRAILS AND THERE'S ALSO RECOMMENDATIONS ABOUT THE STANDARD AND THE QUALITY OF THE PLAYGROUND THAT NEEDS TO BE IN PLACE, AND THEN ALSO THE AGES, THE AGE APPROPRIATENESS OF THAT PLAYGROUND AS WELL. SO THAT'S ALL INCLUDED IN IT. AND LIKE I SAID, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT EXTENSIVELY. AND THAT WAS KIND OF WHAT WE CAME TO. SO IT ENDED UP KIND OF SHIFTING TO THE THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF THE PARK AND THE OPEN SPACE. I WAS GOING TO BE REQUIRED OF THIS DEVELOPMENT IN THE EXCHANGES AND JUSTICE WHY WE'RE HERE. AND REALLY THIS IS AGAIN FOR THE AGENDA ITEM AND NOT THIS ONE, BUT YOUR YOUR ON IT IS BACK TO THERE'S TEETH IN THE SUBDIVISION PLAT ITSELF ABOUT HOA [02:05:02] MAINTAINING THE PARK. DO YOU SEE ANYWHERE ELSE THAT THAT REQUIREMENT? I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT SOME STAFF NOTES ON IT, BUT WAS THAT, WELL, THAT REQUIREMENT RESIDE ANYWHERE ELSE? NO, THAT WILL BE IN A NOTE ON THE PLAT. OKAY. JUST WANT TO CLARIFY FOR EVERYBODY. BUT THEN THAT RUNS WITH THE LAND SHOWS UP. NOW I CAN TELL YOU WE'RE DEALING WITH DIFFERENT SITUATIONS IN DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS IN WARD THREE WHERE NOBODY READ THE PLAT AND PEOPLE ARE SELLING OPEN SPACE LOTS AND DOING ALL KINDS OF THINGS, AND WE'RE STILL CLEANING ALL OF THAT UP. BUT WHEN IT GETS TO STAFF WITH AN ISSUE, WE DO ADDRESS IT WITH OUR LEGAL TEAM. SO THE PLAT WILL STATE THAT THIS IS A PUBLIC AREA. NO. JUST GOING TO STATE THAT THEY MAINTAIN IT. YEAH. SO IT'S PRETTY TRADITIONAL ON PLATS THAT ESPECIALLY IN MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT, MIXED USE DEVELOPMENTS OR RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS, WHEN A DEVELOPMENT HAS MAXED OUT ITS DENSITY, IT WILL BE ON THE REMAINING LAND. THE REMAINDER LAND THAT IT HAS TO BE DEDICATED. LIKE WHAT THAT IS LIKE. SO IT CAN'T JUST BE. HERE'S THREE ACRES THAT'S JUST UNDEVELOPED THAT WE'RE JUST GOING TO LEAVE UNDEVELOPED. IT MUST BE STATED THAT THIS IS EITHER OPEN SPACE OR THIS IS FOR FUTURE COMMERCIAL, BECAUSE IT CANNOT BE RESIDENTIAL, THAT THEY THEN GO BACK AND EXCEED THEIR DENSITY AT A LATER POINT IN TIME. THEY CANNOT DO THAT. SO THAT IS THE REASON THAT WE STATE THE USE FOR THAT. AND SO AS A PART OF THAT, IT ALSO IN THE NOTES, WE WOULD STATE THAT THIS OPEN SPACE IS MAINTAINED BY THE HOA. AND IT'S IT'S CODIFIED IN THE PDP ABOUT IT BEING A LIMITED PUBLIC USE PARK. AND SO I GUESS WE WANTED TO PUT THAT ON THE PLAT AS WELL. WE COULD DO THAT. THERE'S ALSO CONDITIONS TIED TIED TO THE OPEN SPACE AND THE FACILITIES THAT THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE, AS WELL AS A PART OF THE PDP. THAT WILL EVENTUALLY BE A CONDITION ON THE PLATS GOING FORWARD AT ANY POINT IN TIME. COULD THIS BECOME A PRIVATE SPACE? NOT IF IT'S APPROVED LIKE THIS. NO. AND SO AND SO AND SO AND SO. I GUESS KIND OF LIKE THE HOA COULD NOT COME FORWARD AT SOME POINT IN TIME AND GO NO TRESPASSING. STAY OFF OUR PLAYGROUND. STAY OFF OUR. THERE COULD BE LIKE A LIKE AND I GUESS SOMETHING LIKE THAT. LIKE ON LIKE THERE HAS TO BE AN AMENDMENT TO IT WHERE THEY'D HAVE TO DO IT. BUT I MEAN THAT LIKE I SAID, IF IT'S PUT ON THE PLAT, THEY'D HAVE TO GET IT TAKEN OFF THE PLAT AND THEY'D ALSO HAVE TO GET IT AMENDED IN THE PDP TO DO IT. AND SO LIKE I SAID, WE DISCUSSED THIS FROM A LIMITED PUBLIC PUBLIC FACILITIES STANDPOINT. AND REALLY THE EXCHANGE FOCUSED ON THE FACILITIES THAT THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE TO PROVIDE AND ALSO THE SCHEDULE OF WHICH THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE TO PROVIDE THEM. WE KIND OF REALLY KIND OF TOWARDS THE FRONT END OF THE DEVELOPMENT AND NOT AT THE VERY END OR NOT ON A TIMELINE ASSOCIATED WITH THE REST OF THE LOTS COMING FORWARD. SO THE FACT THAT THIS WAS THIS WAS WE CLASSIFIED THIS AS AN AMENITY THAT WAS AVAILABLE FOR AN EXCHANGE IS BECAUSE IT'S A PUBLIC ACT. THERE'S LIMITED PUBLIC ACCESS. YEAH. AND SO AND SO HOW THE IF THERE WAS NO PUBLIC ACCESS, WOULD WOULD THAT BE AN AMENITY? YEAH. AN EXCHANGE. CORRECT. YEAH. YEAH, YEAH. STILL WOULD BE OKAY. YEAH. CORRECT. SO SO SO YEAH, THEY WOULD HAVE TO. SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR, THEY WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE ANOTHER AMENITY IF THEY WERE GOING TO RETRACT THAT ONE. PRETTY MUCH. OKAY. THANK YOU. YOU HAVE 27 SECONDS. I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE I NEED TO SAY. BUT AGAIN, YOU COME UP WITH ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU. I'M RIGHT BACK HERE. THANK YOU. YEP. THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK AT THE PUBLIC HEARING? OKAY, WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE COUNCIL? COMMENTS? I HAVE A COUPLE. SO THE REQUEST IS FOR DDH AND THE FUTURE LAND USE THAT WE JUST AMENDED IS FOR LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL MEDIUM, MEDIUM INTENSITY MIXED USE. CAN CAN YOU TALK ABOUT HOW THAT CORRELATES TO DDH? GREAT QUESTION. SO I'D SAY LOW DENSITY AND MEDIUM INTENSITY. SO LOW DENSITY FROM A RESIDENTIAL STANDPOINT, PROBABLY ANYTHING LESS THAN SIX DWELLING UNITS AN ACRE RD IS FIVE AND A HALF. SO RD IS OFTENTIMES WHEN PEOPLE KIND OF POINT TO WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL. AND OFTENTIMES THE DEVELOPMENTS THAT WE SEE LIKE THIS BUILD UNDER IT. AND SO AS THE APPLICANT CAN MENTION KIND OF WHAT THE DENSITY IS THEY'RE BUILDING AT. BUT I WOULD SAY THIS IS REFLECTIVE OF THAT FROM A MIXED USE MEDIUM INTENSITY THOUGH SMALL COMMERCIAL NODES AT THE CORNERS OF THIS DEVELOPMENT KIND OF AT WHAT'S PEPPERWOOD TRAIL CURRENTLY. AND THEN AUBURN LAKES ROAD WOULD BE REFLECTIVE OF A MIXED USE MEDIUM INTENSITY. AND THAT WAS ALSO A PART OF THE EXCHANGES OF KIND OF HOW THEY WERE SITUATING THAT AND PUTTING THE PARKING IN THE BACK. SO THIS DEVELOPMENT WOULD MATCH THAT THAT FUTURE LAND USE DESIGNATION. OKAY. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? YEAH. THE DENSITY PER ACRE. DOES THAT EXCLUDE ALL THAT PARKLAND? NO. YEAH. NO, NO. IT IS COUNTED. AND SO. AND SO THE PDP ALLOWS PEOPLE TO ADD IT ALL TOGETHER. AND IT'S KIND OF A CUMULATIVE CUMULATIVE CALCULATION. [02:10:03] AND SO THAT IS A PART OF IT. AND SO THE OPEN SPACE AND I GUESS KIND OF THERE'S TWO THINGS HERE. THE PERFORMANCE SUBDIVISIONS PERFORMANCE BASED ZONING TO GET MORE DENSITY AND TO REALIZE FIVE AND A HALF DWELLING UNITS AN ACRE WITHIN DDH, YOU MUST DEDICATE 30% OPEN SPACE. PART OF PDS IS PUTTING THE OPEN SPACE FORTH AS AN AMENITY. AND SO IT IS REQUIRED, IF YOU WERE GOING TO GO THE DDH ROUTE OR THE ROUTE THAT YOU WERE GOING TO HAVE TO DEDICATE THAT OPEN SPACE TO REALIZE YOUR MAX DENSITY OF FIVE AND A HALF DWELLING UNITS AN ACRE. SO THIS MAY COME LATER, BUT SEE, THIS IS PRE ZONING FOR JUST THE DDH RIGHT NOW. AND THEN THE PD WOULD BE NEXT AGENDA ITEM, AND THEN AFTER THAT WOULD FOLLOW THE ANNEXATION. WHAT'S THE LOT SIZE FOR DDH ALLOWABLE? YEAH. SO WHEN WE SAY LOT SIZE I ASSUME YOU MEAN MINIMUM LOT SIZE. YEAH, YEAH. SO THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE AND PERFORMANCE ZONING IN THE CITY OF AUBURN IS 5000FT². AND SO YOU CAN HAVE AS SMALL AS A 5000 SQUARE FOOT LOT AND MINIMUM LOT WIDTH. YOU ALSO WANTING TO THE WIDTH THE WIDTH. YEAH. YEAH. SO SO THE MINIMUM LOT WIDTH FOR PERFORMANCE BASED ZONING IN AUBURN IS 50FT. AND SO A PART OF THE EXCHANGES THAT THEY ASKED FOR WAS A 40 FOOT LOT WIDTH. AND SO THIS IS NOT UNUSUAL IN AUBURN. THERE'S BEEN OTHER DEVELOPMENTS THAT HAVE DONE IT. NOTABLY WOODWARD OAKS HAS DONE IT. MIMS TRAIL HAS RECENTLY DONE IT. AND THEN ALSO THERE'S ALSO OLD SANFORD HAS DONE IT AS WELL. SO THOSE ARE THREE PROMINENT DEVELOPMENTS THAT HAVE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF THAT. AND IT IS A OFTEN REQUESTED EXCHANGE IN SOME OF OUR BIGGER PDS OF THESE RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS. SO THAT DOESN'T COME INTO THIS AGENDA ITEM, NOT FOR THE DDH, BUT THAT'S DEFINITELY UP FOR THE VERY NEXT ONE. NEXT ONE WE DO THE PD. THAT'S WHEN THAT WOULD COME INTO PLAY. CORRECT. BECAUSE THAT IS A PART OF THE EXCHANGES OF PART OF THE OPEN SPACE AND THE CONFIGURATION OF THE FUTURE SITE PLAN. AND TO CLARIFY, I MEAN, THESE ARE AGAIN, THESE ARE ALL PRE ZONINGS. AND SO THEY BUILD ON EACH OTHER AND CAN YOU KNOW YOU DO ONE AND YOU DON'T DO SOME OF THE OTHERS. AND THAT CANCELS THE ANNEXATION. SO YEAH. OKAY. IT'S MAY BE THE WRONG TIME TO ASK THE QUESTION, BUT I GUESS THE HOUSES ARE LIMITED TO 30FT IN WIDTH, BECAUSE WOULD THERE BE A FIVE FOOT SETBACK FROM EITHER SIDE OF THE HOUSE? YEAH. SO? SO I GUESS IT'S PROBABLY A LITTLE MORE THAN THAT BECAUSE IT'S THE HOW IT WORKS IS THERE'S A TOTAL SIDE LIKE SIDE SETBACK AND THEN THERE'S A MINIMUM SIDE SETBACK ON ONE. SO I'D HAVE TO LOOK AT DH SPECIFICALLY TO, TO SEE WHAT IT IS, BUT I THINK IT'D BE A LITTLE, A LITTLE MORE NARROW THAN THAT. BUT THEY DID ASK FOR THE ISR TO ACTUALLY BUILD BUILD A BIGGER HOUSE ON THESE LOTS. AND SO OFTENTIMES WHEN YOU'LL SEE THOSE FUR OR FUR, BUT THOSE TWO THINGS ARE COUPLED. SO YOU WILL RUN INTO, IF YOU'RE ASKING FOR A A MINIMUM LOT WITH A 40FT, THEY WILL THEN COME BACK AND ASK THAT THEY, THAT THEY CAN EXCEED EITHER THE FUR OR THE ISR, SO THEY CAN BUILD A BIGGER STRUCTURE ON THE SMALLER LOT, BECAUSE THEY THEN WOULD BE CAPPED ON THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE HOUSE THAT THEY COULD BUILD ON THAT 40 FOOT LOT WITH. IN THIS CASE IT IS THE FLOOR AREA RATIO. SO IT'S THE SQUARE FOOTAGE VERSUS THE LOT SIZE, ALLOWING THEM A BIGGER PERCENTAGE, BIGGER HOUSE, SMALLER LOT SMALLER SIZE SETBACKS. SO SORRY FOR THE ACRONYM. FLOOR AREA RATIO MEANS THAT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE HOUSE THAT CAN GO ON THE LOT SIZE. SO IT IS A RATIO. AND SO I THINK IT'S 0.35 FOR A SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING AND PERFORMANCE ZONING. SO THERE'S NO MINIMUM BETWEEN HOUSES OR MAXIMUM OR MINIMUM THERE IS. THERE ABSOLUTELY IS. YEAH. AND THEN ALSO I MEAN THERE'S THE ZONING SIDE OF THAT. BUT THEN THERE'S ALSO THE BUILDING, THE INSPECTION SIDE OF THAT, WHERE IF YOU DO WANT TO ENCROACH ON THAT, THERE ARE FIRE RATED WALLS, ALL SORTS OF THINGS. YEAH. WITHIN PERFORMANCE THERE'S ALSO ZERO LOT LINE HOUSES. THERE'S ALL KINDS OF THINGS BECAUSE YOU WOULD PUSH THE SETBACK TO ONE SIDE INSTEAD OF THE OTHER. I MEAN, THERE'S A THERE'S A LOT OF CHOICES HERE. BUT ALSO WE'RE SAYING IS A NUMBER OF THESE PLANNED DEVELOPMENT DISTRICTS THROUGHOUT THE CITY HAVE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF THE VERY SAME PLANNED DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT EXCHANGE, MEANING IT'S NOT JUST THIS DEVELOPMENT THAT IS REQUESTING THIS. ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? MAYOR, YOU KNOW, THIS THIS PROJECT IS LOCATION HAS BEEN AROUND AND AROUND WITH THIS ONE A FEW TIMES. I UNDERSTAND AND WHERE WE ARE. IT'S BEEN A LOT TO DIGEST WITH THE WITH THE OTHER MORATORIUM DISCUSSION WE'VE HAD TONIGHT. SO A LITTLE UNPREPARED. BUT I THINK THAT FOR ME IT JUST THIS DENSITY. THIS MUCH DENSITY HERE IS IT JUST FEELS LIKE A LOT ALONG WITH THE COMMERCIAL NODES. AND I UNDERSTAND THE TRAFFIC IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE COMING OUT THERE, BUT I'M AFRAID WE'RE EXACERBATING AN ISSUE THAT'S ALREADY BAD IN THAT AREA. AND I'M JUST I HAVE CONCERNS REGARDING THAT AROUND THAT DENSITY. [02:15:01] AND SO I'M A LITTLE BIT SOMEWHAT I DON'T WANT TO SAY UNPREPARED, BUT I FEEL LIKE THIS IS IT'S BEEN A LOT TO, TO, TO SWALLOW WITH ALL THE OTHER ITEMS THAT HAVE COME FORWARD WITH WITHIN THE ORIGINAL PLAN WAS LOOKING AT THIS, BUT OBVIOUSLY A LOT MORE CONVERSATIONS CAME OUT OF THAT THAT WORK SESSION. SO, YOU KNOW, BUT FOR ME, THAT'S JUST I WANTED TO SAY THAT AS FAR AS THE DENSITY IS CONCERNED, IT FEELS LIKE A LOT IN THIS AREA WHERE THAT SCHOOL IS LOCATED. EVEN CONSIDERING THE IMPROVEMENTS, THE CHANGE THAT ARE GOING TO COME. SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT COMMENT. DO WE DOES OUR STAFF, ARE WE CONFIDENT THAT THE TRAFFIC IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO FLOW? I MEAN, I ASKED MR. THARP, HE GAVE ME A GREAT ANSWER. I WANT TO HEAR FROM OUR STAFF. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT CONFIDENCE, WE'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT WHAT A TRAFFIC STUDY SAYS, WHICH IS A THE BEST ESTIMATE OR GUESSTIMATE YOU CAN MAKE WITH TECHNICAL DATA BEHIND IT ABOUT TRAVEL PATTERNS FOR PEOPLE. BUT THERE IS NO QUESTION. I MEAN, WE'RE MAKING IMPROVEMENTS. THINGS CAN HANDLE IT, BUT PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO WAIT TO GET OUT OF THE SUBDIVISION IN THE MORNING AND MAY HAVE TO WAIT TO GET BACK IN IT IN THE AFTERNOON. BRANDY MEGAN IS CORRECT IN SAYING THAT OUR TRAFFIC IMPACT STUDY SHOWS THAT THIS IS ACCEPTABLE PER OUR STANDARDS, BUT ACCEPTABLE DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN PEOPLE WILL NOT HAVE TO WAIT TO GET INTO FARMVILLE ROAD. DO WE FORESEE A TIME WHEN LEE ROAD 91, PEPPERWOOD TRAIL IS GIVEN TO THE CITY AND WE IMPROVE THAT ROAD? YES. AND THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS THAT WE'RE STIPULATING THAT IT SHOULD BE IMPROVED. BUT LEE COUNTY IS ALSO REQUIRING THAT. BUT YES, PROBABLY AT OUR NEXT ROUND OF ACCEPTANCE FROM THE COUNTY, THEY WILL BE ACTING, ASKING US TO TAKE OVER THIS SECTION, BECAUSE BOTH SIDES OF THAT COUNTY ROAD WOULD THEN BE IN THE CITY LIMITS. SO YOU CAN, IN ESSENCE, TAKE A RIGHT OUT OF THAT, GO UP AND AROUND AND COME DOWN TO EITHER AUBURN LAKES ROAD, WHICH CONNECTS TO 280 AND ALSO CONNECTS WHERE YOU CAN MAKE AN EASY OUT TO FARMVILLE TO GET TO TO NORTH COLLEGE. YES. PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WOULD BE ABLE TO DO THAT NOW WITH THE ACCEPTANCE FROM THE COUNTY. ONLY A PORTION OF IT WOULD BE CITY. THE REST WOULD STILL BE COUNTY. SO THEY WOULD STILL BE TRAVERSING A COUNTY DIRT ROAD TO DO THAT. BUT THEY DO HAVE THAT CHOICE ON PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY. RIGHT. OKAY. SO WE WOULD BE ACCEPTING JUST A VERY SMALL PIECE OF THIS UP TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD ENTRANCE WOULD PROBABLY BE UP TO THE NORTH PROPERTY LINE. NORTH PROPERTY LINE. JUST BECAUSE THE CITY LIMITS ON BOTH SIDES. TO PIGGYBACK ON SOMETHING THAT COUNCILMAN GRISWOLD ASKED EARLIER DO WE SUBTRACT OUT THE COMMON AREAS? IF YOU DID SUBTRACT OUT THE COMMON AREAS, YOU'D BE LEFT, I THINK, WITH 32.5 ACRES. AND IF YOU DIVIDED THAT BY 146 HOMES, YOU'D GET 0.22 ACRES PER HOUSE, WHICH IS WELL UNDER A QUARTER OF AN ACRE. SO I GUESS THAT'S RELEVANT, BUT I WANTED TO KIND OF PUT IT INTO PERSPECTIVE TO SAY THERE'S NOT A QUARTER OF AN ACRE PER HOUSE. IS THAT ANY DISCUSSION ON THAT? OKAY. IS THAT A QUESTION YOU'RE ASKING? I GUESS I'M ASKING DOES ANYBODY DISAGREE WITH THAT? BUT I WOULD SAY IT'S 0.22 ACRES PER HOUSE. IF YOU WANT SOMETHING TO HANG YOUR HAT ON. WHICH WE HAVE DONE IN OTHER SUBDIVISIONS THROUGHOUT THE CITY. I WAS I WAS DOING THE MATH ON THAT. SO. YES. AND SO AND SO AND SO I GUESS KIND OF, AS I SAID, THE POINT OF PDS AND THE POINT OF, I GUESS, THE CALCULATION AND THE PERFORMANCE ZONING DESIGNATION WHEN YOU WANT TO AND I GUESS KIND OF HOW OUR SUBDIVISION REGS ARE LAID OUT IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE, THE WAY FOR YOU TO REALIZE THE HIGHER DENSITY IN SOME OF THE ZONING DESIGNATIONS IS TO DEDICATE OPEN SPACE. AND SO YOU CAN ONLY REALIZE THAT THROUGH A PERFORMANCE ZONING DISTRICT. AND SO PERFORMANCE HAS THE TIGHTER SETBACKS, ALLOWS YOU TO HAVE 50 FOOT WIDE LOT WIDTHS. AND I GUESS THAT'S JUXTAPOSED WITH OUR CONVENTIONAL SUBDIVISION REGULATIONS THAT DO NOT HAVE THAT. AND THEY REQUIRE MUCH MORE FRONTAGE, I THINK EVEN FOR NC, I THINK NC SIX, I THINK THE LOT FRONTAGE IS LIKE 65FT. AND SO THAT'S A 6000 SQUARE FOOT LOT THAT JUST HAS MUCH MORE FRONTAGE WHERE YOU CANNOT BUILD THEM TIGHTLY IN THESE NEIGHBORHOODS. AND SO TO YOUR TO YOUR QUESTION, WE HAVE DONE THIS IN THE PAST WHERE THE ACTUAL LAND THAT THE HOUSES ARE ON DOES LOOK VERY SMALL. BUT WHAT THEY HAVE IS THE COMMON OPEN SPACE THAT EVERYBODY HAS ACCESS TO. AND MANY OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS WILLOW CREEK, LUNDY, CHASE, COTSWOLDS, ALL HAVE THESE TRAILS THAT PEOPLE CAN WALK ON AND KIND OF GO THROUGH. I GUESS ALSO WITH ADAIR BEING ANOTHER ONE. BUT I GUESS THAT'S A MORE LARGE LOT SUBDIVISION. [02:20:05] WOODWARD OAKS IS ANOTHER ONE THAT HAS A LOT OF TRAILS AND ACCESS TO THEM, BUT THAT THAT'S PRETTY COMMON PRACTICE THAT THE ACTUAL LOTS THEMSELVES WOULD BE SMALLER, BUT THE OPEN SPACE THAT THEY HAVE ACCESS TO IS MUCH MORE THE AMENITY AND THE GRANDER OPEN SPACE THAT PEOPLE ARE ATTRACTED TO. YEAH, IT'S NOT UNUSUAL TO HAVE 5000 SQUARE FOOT LOTS IN DEVELOPMENTS ALL OVER THE CITY. YOU ALSO HAVE ROADS IN THOSE CALCULATIONS AND OTHER THINGS THAT FURTHER REDUCES THE LOT SIZE. AND THAT IT'S NOT UNCOMMON, AND IT IS IN A LOT OF THE WARDS ALL OVER THE CITY. SO I THINK AGAIN, REMINDING YOU WE'RE ON THE RD PIECE, WE'LL PROBABLY HAVE LESS DISCUSSION ON THE PD PIECE. AND SO THIS ONE UNUSUALLY BACK TO IF YOU DO ADOPT THIS, IT'S REALLY NOT GERMANE TO ANYTHING UNLESS YOU GO ALL THE WAY THROUGH EVERYTHING ELSE. SO THAT'S UP TO YOU FROM A POINT OF MOVING FORWARD. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? DOES THE DEVELOPMENT JUST TO THE WEST OF THIS PROPERTY HAS OVERHILL COURT AND HIGHLANDS. HIGHLANDS? ARE THOSE THINGS YOU ANTICIPATE ANTICIPATE THOSE CONNECTING AT SOME POINT ON THOSE CUL DE SACS OUT TO LEE ROAD 91? NO. YOU HAVE YOU HAVE TOO MANY LOTS. THERE'S NOT RIGHT HERE. WELL, YOU HAVE A. YEAH, YEAH. SO YOU CAN'T THERE'S A HOUSE THERE. YEAH. OKAY. YEAH. ALL DO YOU ANTICIPATE AT SOME POINT HAVING A STOPLIGHT AT THE INTERSECTION OF LEE ROAD 91 AND FARMVILLE DOES NOT WARRANT, AND WE DON'T KNOW THAT IT WILL. IT CERTAINLY DOES NOT WARRANT WITH THIS DEVELOPMENT. NOW AS THINGS DEVELOP NORTH OF THAT IN COUNTY ROADS, A LOT OF THAT IS UNIVERSITY PROPERTY. SO I DON'T IMAGINE THAT WE WOULD EVER GET TO THE POINT WHERE A TRAFFIC SIGNAL WOULD BE WARRANTED, BUT THAT WOULD DEPEND ON WHAT THE UNIVERSITY CHOOSES TO. AUBURN LAKES ROAD IS A POTENTIAL, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF BOTH WOODWARD OAKS AND WHAT HAVE YOU. BUT TO BRANDI'S POINT, YOU GO UP AUBURN LAKES ROAD, YOU'RE MOSTLY UNIVERSITY. OKAY. EVERYBODY READY? ALL RIGHT. WITH THE ROLL CALL. BRET. TAYLOR. YES. YES. ADAMS. YES. COBLENTZ. NO, MA'AM. DAWSON. YES, MA'AM. GRISWOLD. NO, MA'AM. NO, MA'AM. PARSONS. YES. ANDERS. YES. ALL RIGHT. THE DDH ADOPTED. SO ITEM NINE, B TWO IS A REQUEST TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 53.5 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED ON WEST FARMVILLE ROAD BETWEEN PEPPERWOOD [9.b.2.Greenwood Village Pre-zoning PDD. Pre-zone approximately 53.5 acres. Property located on West Farmville Road between Pepperwood Trail and Auburn Lakes Road. Public hearing required. Postponed from October 21, 2025.] TRAIL AND AUBURN LAKES ROAD THAT HAS BEEN ZONED DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT HOUSING TO APPLY THE PLANNED DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT OVERLAY DESIGNATION FOR A PROJECT KNOWN AS GREENWOOD VILLAGE. THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THIS REQUEST BY A VOTE OF 5 TO 4 AT ITS AUGUST 14TH MEETING. THIS ITEM WAS POSTPONED FROM THE OCTOBER 21ST MEETING. A MOTION IS NEEDED AND A PUBLIC HEARING IS REQUIRED FOR APPROVAL. SECOND. MOTION AND A SECOND. PUBLIC HEARING. ALL RIGHT. NO UNANIMOUS CONSENT. SO WE'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. IF YOU'D LIKE TO ADDRESS THE COUNCIL, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. FOR THE RECORD, YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO SPEAK TO THE COUNCIL. I THINK I NEED TO TALK ABOUT 40 FOOT LOTS, RIGHT? SO COUPLE OF THINGS I WANTED TO POINT OUT. GOOD DISCUSSION ON THE LAST ITEM. A COUPLE OF THINGS I NOTICED. I DID WANT TO POINT OUT THAT, YOU KNOW, THE 30% MINIMUM OPEN SPACE IS REQUIRED FOR ANY GENERAL PERFORMANCE SUBDIVISION AND DDH WITH THE DEVELOPMENT WE'RE PROPOSING, THE 40%. SO IT'S OBVIOUSLY A GOOD DEAL MORE THAN WHAT'S REQUIRED BY THAT BASE ZONING. PART OF THAT IS ALSO DRIVING THE LOT SIZES THAT WE WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT TO THIS POINT. AND I WANTED TO KIND OF TALK THROUGH A LITTLE BIT. ADDITIONALLY, ONE REASON FOR THE 40 FOOT LOT WIDTHS IS IT'S HELPING US GET A MORE DIVERSE UNIT MIX FOR THE DEVELOPMENT AS A WHOLE. THE 40 FOOT LOTS ARE INTENDED TO BE KIND OF CENTRALLY LOCATED WITHIN PHASE TWO OR THE EAST SIDE OF THE DEVELOPMENT AND IT WOULD BE SURROUNDED BY LARGER 50 FOOT LOTS AROUND THE PERIMETER. AGAIN, THAT HELPS THE DEVELOPER IN THEIR SALE OF THE PROPERTIES ONCE EVERYTHING IS SUBDIVIDED, JUST TO GIVE A MORE, EXCUSE ME, MORE DIVERSE UNIT TYPE. THE SETBACKS THAT ARE REQUIRED IN THE BASE ZONING WOULD BE MET BY THOSE UNIT TYPES. BUT THEY ARE A NARROWER FOOTPRINT. AGAIN, THERE'S A LOT OF THAT GOING ON HERE IN TOWN NOW. SQUARE FOOTAGE IS ON THOSE. THEY WOULD BE MOST LIKELY BE SMALLER. WE ARE ASKING FOR THE 20% INCREASE IN THE FLOOR AREA RATIO IN CASE THERE ARE SOME UNIT TYPES THAT THEY WANT TO MIX IN THERE. [02:25:06] THAT MAY BE A TOUCH LARGER, BUT IN GENERAL THOSE ARE GOING TO BE DOWN AROUND IN THE 1700 SQUARE FOOT TO 2300 SQUARE FOOT RANGE, IF THAT'S HELPFUL. SO IT'S A NARROWER UNIT THAT WOULD FIT ON THE 40 FOOT LOT WITHIN THE SETBACKS THAT ARE SET BY THE ZONING ORDINANCE. THE OTHER PIECE OF THIS, I KNOW THAT I THINK AT ONE POINT THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION WITH STAFF ABOUT POTENTIAL PRICE POINTS. THAT 40 FOOT LOT DOES PROVIDE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR MAYBE A LOWER PRICE POINT WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT, WHICH WE THINK IS A BENEFIT AND SOMETHING THAT THERE'S NOT A LOT OF PARTICULARLY ON THAT SIDE OF TOWN. SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT MORE ATTAINABLE FOR, YOU KNOW, IT'S RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM A K-2 ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, MAYBE FIRST TIME HOME BUYER KIND OF DEAL. BUT THAT WOULD BE PROVIDING AN OPPORTUNITY FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHICH WE THINK WOULD BE GREAT. RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE SCHOOL. THERE'S SOME MORE THAT IS THAT IS PRIMARILY WHAT I WANTED TO HIT ON. AGAIN, IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS AND I'M SURE THERE ARE, PLEASE ASK. HAPPY TO ANSWER THEM. THANK YOU. YEAH, I'LL HAVE SOME. BUT LET'S GET THROUGH THE PUBLIC HEARING, AND THEN WE CAN THANK YOU. YEP. WHO'LL BE NEXT? GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS CHLOE KELLY. I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF THE PROPOSED DEVELOPER, 68 VENTURES. I JUST WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU FOR HAVING US THIS EVENING AND FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION THIS REAL QUICK. CAN WE GET YOUR ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD? OFFICE ADDRESS IS FINE. 26051 ESSER LANE, DAPHNE, ALABAMA 36532. THERE WERE A FEW ITEMS I JUST WANTED THE OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS. SO IN ADDITION TO SOME OF THE DETAILS THAT WERE HERE THIS EVENING. I DID WANT TO HIGHLIGHT, I BELIEVE THE PARK WAS A QUESTION. SO WE DO PLAN TO ADVERTISE THIS AS A PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE PARK. WE DO PLAN TO HAVE THAT ILLUSTRATED IN THE CRS FOR THE ASSOCIATION. SO ASIDE FROM ANY REGULATIONS THAT CAN BE PLACED ON THE PLAT WE'RE HAPPY TO AGREE TO ANY OTHER TERMS OF AGREEMENT. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WAS REFLECTED IN THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT THAT WE'VE EXECUTED. BUT IF THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT YOU WANTED TO SEE AMENDED, IF THAT'S APPROPRIATE, OR IF THERE'S ANY OTHER WAY TO CODIFY THAT, WE'RE AGREEABLE TO DOING THAT. THERE WERE A NUMBER OF REVISIONS THAT WERE MADE TO THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT. IN ITERATIONS WITH COMMUNITY INPUT STAFF. WE DID ADD ADDITIONAL THERE'S LANDSCAPE BUFFERS 25FT AROUND THE PERIMETER OF THE SITE, WHICH WASN'T DISCUSSED. TO PROVIDE SOME SCREENING AND WHATNOT. THE DIFFERENTIATION IN PRODUCT TYPES. SO THE SMALLER LOTS WE'RE PROPOSING WE'RE ABOUT TWO AND A HALF YEARS IF THIS PROJECT WAS TO MOVE FORWARD, LIKELY FROM THE FIRST HOME BEING CONSTRUCTED, MAYBE LONGER, BUT WE DO HAVE PROPOSED FLOOR PLANS. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAD A PRESENTATION THAT WAS SHARED AS A PART OF YOUR PACKET, BUT WE DO HAVE SOME ELEVATIONS THAT WERE INCLUDED, AND WE WOULD BE ANTICIPATING LIKELY A 1700 TO 2100 SQUARE FOOT HOME ON THOSE 40 FOOT LOTS. JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF PRODUCT TYPE. AND AS I MENTIONED, THOSE ILLUSTRATIONS ARE INCLUDED HERE. THESE WOULD BE THEM IF THEY WERE IN YOUR POCKETS THIS EVENING. ALSO THE AMENITY DELIVERY. SO THE PARK WE WOULD BE STIPULATED TO HAVE THAT FULLY INSTALLED BY THE 88TH LOT. SO WE JUST WANTED TO BE ABLE TO AFFIRM THAT THOSE AMENITIES WOULD BE IN PLACE AND ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC, AND THEY WOULD NOT BE DELAYED. TO THE THE COMPLETION OF OUR CONSTRUCTION OF ALL PHASES. SO AGAIN, I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF THE DEVELOPER, MAYBE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS MORE SPECIFICALLY, AND JUST WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION THIS EVENING. THANK YOU CHLOE. I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. WHO'LL BE NEXT? OKAY. WE'LL CLOSE PUBLIC HEARING. QUESTIONS? COMMENTS. AND, LEE, I MAY NEED YOU SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU, BUT REAL QUICK ON THE PARK ACCESS. BECAUSE THIS IS SLIGHTLY A NEW, NOT NEW CONCEPT, BUT FOR THE CITY OF AUBURN, WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF SPACES THAT ARE WITHIN NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC, THAT ARE NOT MAINTAINED BY THE PUBLIC OR FROM THE CITY. SO HOW DOES THAT ACTUALLY TRANSLATE IN WORK IN REALITY? I KNOW WE CAN SIT HERE AND TALK ABOUT NICE THINGS, BUT I THINK IN REALITY, SOME THINGS THAT YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER IS WHY THE DEVELOPER IS WILLING TO DO ALL OF THE ABOVE, PUT IT IN THEIR THEIR HOA COVENANTS. COUNCILMAN ADAMS ASKED, YOU KNOW, ABOUT, YOU KNOW, TRESPASSING OR WHATEVER, THE SIGNAGE, WHATEVER, WHATEVER HE SAID EARLIER IN, IN THEORY. AND I'M GOING TO LOOK AT OUR PARKS AND RECREATION DIRECTOR. WE WOULDN'T ADVERTISE THIS AS A PUBLIC PARK. HOWEVER, [02:30:05] WHAT THE DEVELOPER IS SAYING, WHICH YOU DON'T OFTEN HEAR, IS WE'RE WILLING TO PUT IT IN DOCUMENTS THAT SAY THAT THE PUBLIC IS WELCOME TO BE HERE TO SAY AND IT'S NOT ANY FAULT OF THE DEVELOPER OR THE HOA THAT EVENTUALLY WE WON'T GET CALLS ABOUT RANDOM PEOPLE TRAVERSING THE PROPERTY. POLICE WILL WILL DEAL WITH THAT, BUT THEY WOULD DEAL WITH THAT IF IT WAS PRIVATE AS WELL. AND SO THEY, YOU KNOW, LIKELY ONE OF THE THINGS IN COLLABORATION WE WOULD NEED TO DO IS WORK WITH THEM. THEY WOULD WE WOULD STRONGLY ADVISE THEY POST HOURS OF ACCESS TO THEIR PROPERTIES AND SO ON TO HELP CUT DOWN ON THAT, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THE HOA DECIDES. BUT ALISON HALL, AM I MISSING ANYTHING ON THAT? WE WOULD ENCOURAGE THEM WITH SOME CERTAIN THINGS, BUT WE WOULDN'T ADVERTISE IT AS A PUBLIC PARK BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO CONFUSE ANYBODY THAT THE CITY OWNS IT, AND SOMEHOW THEY CAN SCHEDULE THE PAVILION THERE, OR THEY CAN DO OTHER THINGS LIKE THERE'S THERE'S A LINE. I THINK WHAT YOU'RE HEARING, THOUGH, THAT IS UNUSUAL, IS VERY RARELY DO YOU HEAR A DEVELOPMENT ENTITY SAY, WE'RE GOING TO ALLOW AND WE'LL PUT IT IN WRITING PUBLIC ACCESS TO THIS. I DO THINK THAT WE COULD HELP RECOMMEND SOME SAFEGUARDS TO THEM IN ONE ON ONE MEETINGS ABOUT TRYING TO HELP THEM OUT WITH THAT TO AVOID CONFUSION. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, REGARDLESS OF WHICH WAY IT GOES, AUBURN PD WILL END UP THERE AT 2:00 IN THE MORNING WITH SOME TEENAGERS LIKELY JUST IN. SHENANIGANS ABOUND IN THE PLAYGROUND AND THEY'RE ALL NODDING AT ME. EVERY CURRENT AND RETIRED POLICE OFFICER IN THE ROOM IS NODDING AT ME, AND AND I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT. AND THAT'S JUST PART OF WHAT WE DO FOR THE CITY. SO IT FROM A CONTROVERSY STANDPOINT, WE'RE GOING TO BE ENFORCING SOME THINGS THERE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. OUR POLICE ALSO NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE RULES OF ENGAGEMENT ARE AT THE PARK, AND THEY'LL BE FINE. THANK YOU. LEE, MAY I ASK A FEW QUESTIONS? SO THE 40 FOOT MINIMUM LOT SIZE, IF I HEARD YOU CORRECTLY EARLIER, IS NOT 100% OF THE LOT SIZES. CORRECT? OKAY. AND THESE ARE ALL SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOMES. YES. BECAUSE IN THE TOWNHOMES PROPOSED. RIGHT. BECAUSE IN A PREVIOUS RENDITION THERE WERE SOME TOWNHOMES. CORRECT? EARLIER. YES. AND THAT WAS WHEN THE DEVELOPMENT WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE DENSE AT THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL. SO WE'VE WORKED THAT OUT OF THE. OKAY. AND THEN IF THIS IS PD IS APPROVED, THE 146 DENSITY CANNOT CHANGE UNLESS A FUTURE COUNCIL AGREED TO CHANGE IT IF THE APPLICANT REQUESTED. THAT'S CORRECT. AND JUSTICE, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT I THINK ONCE THAT NUMBER IS IN THE PD, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE OFFICIALLY AMENDED BY Y'ALL TO BE ABLE TO GO UP. I THINK IT COULD GO DOWN, BUT YOU CAN DO LESS. YEAH, THAT IS CORRECT. SO DO LESS. YEAH YEAH YEAH. SO SO YOU CAN ALWAYS DO LESS BUT YOU CANNOT EXCEED IT. AND THEN ALSO THEY WOULD BE LOCKED IN TO THE UNIT TYPE LIKE THE HOUSE TYPE AS WELL. SO IF THEY TRIED TO YOU CAN ALWAYS CHANGE TO SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING. YOU CANNOT CHANGE FROM SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING WITHOUT AN AMENDMENT. OKAY. SO I THINK THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED. I'VE HAD SOME RESIDENTS NEARBY. THEY THINK THAT YOU'RE BUILDING TINY HOMES. AND SO I JUST WANT TO CONFIRM THAT THAT IS NOT YOUR INTENTION. THAT IS NOT THE INTENTION, THOUGH. I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT DEFINITION OF A TINY HOME. Y'ALL MAY COULD HELP ME OUT THERE, BUT I DON'T. I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD MEET ANY OF THE STANDARDS IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE. SO, SO SO I KNOW PEOPLE MAY SEE COTTAGE SIZE HOUSES AND THINK THAT THEY ARE TINY HOMES, BUT THEY ARE NOT. THEY HAVE BEEN REGULATED BY THE I GUESS THE IBC, THE INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE. SO THEY RECENTLY AMENDED IT, AND I GUESS THEY COUNT LIKE ALL OF THE OUTSIDE WALLS AS WELL. SO IT'S ANY HOUSE THAT IS UP TO 444FT² TOTAL. SO IT'S LOFT SPACE, ALL THIS OTHER STUFF. AND I GUESS THE BUILDING OFFICIAL BE ABLE TO SPEAK MORE TO IT IN GREATER DETAIL. BUT TINY HOMES HAVE THEIR OWN APPENDIX IN THE IBC AND ARE REGULATED TOTALLY DIFFERENTLY FROM SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES THAT THAT EXCEED THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE OF A HOME. SO, YOU KNOW, LONG AGO, A CONDOMINIUM DEVELOPMENT IN TOMMY'S WARD ON WIRE ROAD AND HEARTHSTONE THAT SOME PEOPLE CALL SMURF HOUSES. THOSE. THOSE TINY HOMES. ARE THEY TOO BIG? THOSE WERE JUST ABOUT. THEY MIGHT BE TOO SMALL TO BE A TINY HOME. THEY'RE PRETTY SMALL, BUT I LIVE IN A TINY HOME. TRUSTEE. YEAH. AND SO THAT THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN HERE. BUT FROM A REGULATORY PERSPECTIVE, WE HAVE REGULATORY ITEMS THAT DEAL WITH THAT, BOTH THE INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE AND SO ON. AND LIKE I SAID, ALL OVER TOWN, YOU DO HAVE SOME LOTS LIKE THIS AND SIZE AND THE THE DEVELOPER, YOU KNOW, CHLOE WAS SPEAKING TO THE SIZE OF THE HOUSE. AND THAT 1700 SQUARE FOOT TO 2100FT² IS NOT UNCOMMON FOR A LOT OF THIS SIZE, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL CALL IT A STARTER HOME OR JUST A AN AFFORDABLE HOME IN THE SENSE THAT SOME, SOME FOLKS HAVE DIFFERENT INCOMES. AND THIS MIGHT BE A LITTLE MORE AFFORDABLE BY ITS SIZE AND LOT SIZE. AND THEN MISS KELLY ALSO MENTIONED THAT THE FIRST HOME WOULD PROBABLY NOT COME ONLINE UNTIL ABOUT TWO AND A HALF YEARS AFTER. [02:35:07] FROM THIS, IF APPROVED. CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE TIMELINE? ABOUT HOW MANY HOMES PER YEAR DO YOU THINK YOU WOULD TAKE DOWN? SURE. THE THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL WAS TO BITE THIS OFF IN TWO PHASES, AND IT WOULD BASICALLY BE SPLIT EAST VERSUS WEST. I MAY HAVE TO CALL ON CHLOE TO COME UP HERE AND TALK SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THEIR CONSTRUCTION TEAM AND EXACTLY WHAT THEIR CAPABILITY IS. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE ARE. I KNOW THERE'S NOT IN THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE ARE ANY RESTRICTIONS ON COS PER YEAR OR SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO BE AWARE OF, BUT THE I'LL TELL YOU THIS, THAT IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LOT LONGER TO DEVELOP THE SITE THAN IT WOULD BE TO ACTUALLY BUILD THESE HOUSES BECAUSE OF THE CHALLENGES OF THE TOPOGRAPHY AND THINGS LIKE THAT. I MEAN, Y'ALL, Y'ALL HAVE SEEN IT. IT IS HEAVILY WOODED, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF SITE WORK CHALLENGES THERE THAT'S GOING TO PREVENT. NO, THE ONLY CONDITION THAT WAS TIED TO DEVELOPMENT WAS WHAT CHLOE MENTIONED, THAT THERE IS A STIPULATION THAT THEY CANNOT EXCEED THE 88TH LOT WITHOUT DELIVERING ALL OF THE PARK AMENITIES FROM FINAL PLAT, AND SO THAT THAT IS A CONDITION OF THE SPEED THAT THEY DID AGREE TO. SO ARE YOU MORE WORRIED ABOUT THE INFRASTRUCTURE IMPROVEMENT PIECE OF IT? IS THAT KIND OF THE. WELL, I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT MR. COBLENTZ WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE DENSITY AND HOW THAT WOULD IMPACT TRAFFIC IN THE AREA. AND WE'VE ALSO DISCUSSED THE TIMELINE OF FARMVILLE IMPROVEMENTS IN NORTH DONOHUE INTERSECTION IMPROVEMENTS. SO I THIS APPEARS THAT IT WOULD NOT OVERLAP THOSE IMPROVEMENTS, THAT THEN THE HOMES WOULD COME ONLINE IN A TIMELINE THAT WOULDN'T CREATE AN INFLUX OF TRAFFIC AT ALL AT ONE TIME, IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO ESTABLISH. AND THAT WAS KIND OF THE INTENT OF THE ORIGINAL SCHEDULE THAT WAS SUBMITTED WITH THE PACKET THAT YOU GUYS HAVE WAS TO ENSURE THAT, AGAIN, IT'S GOING TO KIND OF NATURALLY PLAY OUT THAT WAY WITH THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS PROPERTY ANYWAY THAT IT'S GOING TO TIME OUT, ASSUMING, YOU KNOW, ALL APPROVALS ARE MET TONIGHT. THAT WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO HAVE ALL THESE LOTS COME ONLINE UNTIL SUCH TIME THAT ALL THOSE IMPROVEMENTS ARE MADE ANYWAY. BUT THAT WAS PART OF THE INTENT OF PUTTING THAT SCHEDULE IN THERE WAS TO ILLUSTRATE THAT THAT WAS THE CASE. I'LL SAY THIS TOO. I KNOW. AND AGAIN, THIS IS THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE ON THE DEVELOPMENT SIDE, BUT FROM THE ORIGINAL SUBMITTAL OF THAT SCHEDULE WITH THE PD DOCUMENT, WE HAD SOME DATES THAT WERE IN THERE. THIS IS OBVIOUSLY GONE ON A LITTLE BIT LONGER THAN WE ORIGINALLY THOUGHT. SO THOSE DATES ARE GETTING KICKED OUT EVEN FURTHER, WHICH IS GOING TO HELP PREVENT THAT OVERLAP EVEN MORE. WHICH I THINK IS GOING TO BE HOPEFULLY RELIEVE A LOT OF CONCERNS ON THE INFRASTRUCTURE IMPROVEMENT SIDE. AND THEN THE TWO COMMERCIAL NODES FROM STAFF PERSPECTIVE. NORMALLY WE SEE USES IN A PDB. THOSE ARE NOT INCLUDED IN THIS. CORRECT. THE PLANNING DIRECTOR ADDRESSED THAT. YEAH THAT IS CORRECT. SO LIKE WE MENTIONED EARLIER, ALL OF THEIR USES HAVE COME BACK AND BE CONDITIONAL USES. THEY DIDN'T GET ANY. THAT WOULD BE BY RIGHT. AND SO ANYTHING THAT THEY WANT TO DO FROM A COMMERCIAL STANDPOINT WILL COME BEFORE PLANNING COMMISSION AND COUNCIL BEFORE THEY CAN BE CONSTRUCTED. OKAY. THAT GIVES YOU THE OPPORTUNITY AT THE THEN TIME AND THE RESIDENTS. UNLESS UNLESS SOME THINGS GO IN TANDEM TO SPEAK TO THOSE ITEMS. OKAY. THANK YOU. I THINK THAT'S WHAT I HAVE FOR RIGHT NOW. OKAY. PERFECT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? YEAH. DO YOU HAVE TO DIG THOSE THREE LAKES? I MEAN, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S ON YOUR AGENDA TO DO I GUESS. SO THERE'S THERE'S GOING TO BE KEEP MOVING THAT MIKE. THERE'S PLANNED TO BE A COUPLE OF DETENTION BONDS WHICH WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR THE ENGINEERING PIECE OF THE DEVELOPMENT TO ATTENUATE STORMWATER, BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO BE PAVING AND PUTTING HOUSES WHERE THERE'S WOODS NOW. SO THOSE ARE GOING TO BE REQUIRED ON THE ENGINEERING SIDE AND HANDLED DURING. DR.. WITH THE ACTUAL CONSTRUCTION DOCUMENTS OF THE PLAN. SO THOSE ARE THOSE ARE RETENTION OR RETENTION PONDS. THEY'RE THEY'RE GOING TO BE RETENTION. WE'RE GOING TO HOLD SOME WATER IN THEM. THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK LIKE WET PONDS. AND JUST FOR SOME STORMWATER QUALITY PURPOSES, YOU KNOW, THE CITY'S GOT SOME REQUIREMENTS FROM THE WATER QUALITY STANDPOINT, NOT JUST HOLDING THE WATER BACK. SO YOU'RE NOT OVERLOADING THE DOWNSTREAM INFRASTRUCTURE, BUT TRYING TO IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF THE WATER THAT LEAVES THE SITE. SO THEY'RE GOING TO FUNCTION AS AS BOTH. THERE IS AN EXISTING CREEK IN THE MIDDLE OF WHERE WE'RE PROPOSING ALL THESE NATURE TRAILS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT THOSE ARE GOING TO BE PUT IN PLACE TO, YOU KNOW, AVOID ANY IMPACTS THAT THE DEVELOPMENT MIGHT HAVE ON THAT EXISTING CREEK, TRYING TO MAINTAIN THAT NATURAL AREA. WELL, THOSE LAKES SOMEWHAT SORT OF LIKE LAKES AND ASHTON LAKES AND ASHTON LIKE THE ASHTON LAKES, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE THAT BIG, RIGHT. BUT SERVICE SIMILAR LIKE OPPORTUNITIES FOR LIKE THEY COULD ALSO BE AN AMENITY FOR FISHING [02:40:09] AND WE WOULD GENERALLY PLAN, YOU KNOW, YES, THAT WOULD BE PART OF OUR OPEN SPACE TO WHERE WE WOULD WANT TO KEEP IT CLEAN. OKAY. IT WOULD BE AN AMENITY WHETHER OR NOT WE CAN GET FISH TO STAY IN THERE IS PROBABLY A DIFFERENT SUBJECT ALTOGETHER. BUT DUE TO THE SIZE, PRIMARILY, I DON'T THINK WE CAN SUPPORT JUST A TON OF FISH, BUT IT WOULD BE A MORE NATURAL LOOKING AREA. WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE, THERE'S GOING TO BE FENCED OFF FOR LIABILITY PURPOSES. ANYTHING LIKE THAT THOUGH GENERALLY WITH A WITH A DRY DETENTION POND THAT YOU WOULD SEE ON A COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU WOULD FENCE IT OFF. IF WE'RE GOING TO PROPOSE IT AS MORE OF LIKE AN AMENITY, WE WOULD NOT FENCE IT. NO. HOW IS IT BEING PROPOSED AS AN AMENITY. CURRENTLY, IT WOULD BE PROPOSED WITHIN THE AMENITY SPACE. SO IT WOULD HAVE A DUAL FUNCTION. YES, SIR. OKAY. AND WE OBVIOUSLY HAVEN'T GOT THAT FAR DOWN IN THE DESIGN OF ACTUALLY DEPTH AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT FROM A CONCEPT PERSPECTIVE THAT WOULD BE THE PLAN. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. THOUGHTS. NO NOT FOR THIS GENTLEMAN. OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THE WATER QUALITY ASPECT OF IT WITH THE RETENTION PONDS VERSUS THE LAKE. I WONDER IF WE COULD HAVE COMMENTS ON THAT. WHO'S THE MOST APPROPRIATE STAFF PERSON TO SPEAK TO THAT? ERIC, DO YOU WATER QUALITY USE THAT BRANDY OR IS IT DAN? WELL BRANDY CAN GO AND THEN WE'LL GO FROM THERE. WE HAVE LOTS OF ENGINEERS. GO AHEAD. BRANDY. YEAH. YEAH. SO FROM A WATER QUALITY STANDPOINT, THEY HAVE TO RETAIN THEIR WATER ON THEIR SITE. AND AS LONG AS THEY'RE MEETING THOSE REQUIREMENTS AND THERE'S NOT FLOODPLAINS AND OTHER ISSUES THAT THEY HAVE TO MEET REQUIREMENTS. FOR AS LONG AS THEY'RE MEETING THEIR REQUIREMENTS, THEY'RE OKAY FROM AN ENGINEERING STANDPOINT. ERIC, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT FROM THE WATER QUALITY? AND WE HAVE OVERALL REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT. WELL, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE REQUIREMENTS TO MAKE IT BE A WET POND. NO, NOT TO BE A WET POND, BUT THE WATER QUALITY SIDE. WE ALSO HAVE KIND OF NO CHOICE ON. CORRECT. YES, IT'S ON THE HAS TO FOLLOW THE WATER QUALITY TOOL AND THEY HAVE TO MEET THOSE STANDARDS. SO YEAH, BUT WE'RE MEETING OTHER STANDARDS BY REQUIRING THE WATER QUALITY AT MS4. IS IT. WHAT IS IT. WHY IS THAT REQUIRED. YEAH THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. SO IS SAFE TO SAY ARE THESE ARE THESE LAKES, ARE THEY JUST HOLES IN THE GROUND. THEY'RE GOING TO HOLD RUNOFF I MEAN THAT THAT'S UP TO THEM AND HOW THEY TREAT IT. I MEAN, WE HAVE WET, YOU KNOW, RETENTION PONDS IN OUR TECHNOLOGY PARKS THAT HAVE CLAY LINERS AND SO ON THAT ARE INTENTIONALLY HOLDING WATER FOR AN AMENITY. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW FAR THEY'RE GOING WITH THIS. SO THEY HAVE TO HAVE THEM. HOW FAR THEY AMENITIZED THEM IS ULTIMATELY UP TO THE DEVELOPER. AND I DON'T KNOW IF CHLOE, IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK TO THAT REAL QUICKLY, IF YOU DON'T MIND. I'M GOING TO TIE AS I LIKE TO MAKE UP WORDS BUT MONETIZE. SO CURRENTLY OUR INTENTION IS TO HAVE THEM BE WET PONDS. AS MR. AS LEA THORPE. SORRY, HE'S TO ME AS HE MENTIONED, WE HAVE NOT PROCEEDED WITH CIVIL ENGINEERING YET, SO WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO DETERMINE EXACTLY WHAT THE CONFIGURATION OF THOSE PONDS WILL LOOK LIKE. BUT CURRENTLY THE INTENTION IS TO MONETIZE THEM. WE HAVE NOT DISCUSSED STOCKING FISH, BUT WE DO ANTICIPATE THEM BEING WET AND WE WOULD NOT PLAN TO HAVE THEM BE FENCED. SO ESTHETICALLY, WE'D LIKE FOR THEM TO BE APPEALING A LOT LIKE A LAKE. YES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. EXCEPT FOR A DROUGHT, IT'LL HAVE FISH WHERE YOU PUT THEM IN THERE NOW. YEAH. THEY WILL LAY EGGS AND ALL THAT STUFF. YEAH. SO DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE FISH. IT'LL BE THERE. YEP. OKAY. OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FROM CHIEF DAWSON. IT'S GETTING LATE, FOLKS. SHE'S IN BED BY THIS TIME. ALL RIGHT. LINDSAY. ROLL CALL. WHITTON. YES. ADAMS. YES. COBLENTZ. NO, MA'AM. DAWSON. YES, MA'AM. GRISWOLD. NO, MA'AM. YES, MA'AM. PARSONS. YES. TAYLOR. YES. ANDERS. YES. ALL RIGHT. THE PD PASSES ITEM NINE. B THREE IS A REQUEST TO ANNEX APPROXIMATELY 53.5 ACRES OF PROPERTY KNOWN AS THE SAMPLES PROPERTY, [9.b.3.Samples Property Annexation. Approximately 53.5 acres. Property located on West Farmville Road between Pepperwood Trail and Auburn Lakes Road. Postponed from October 21, 2025.] LOCATED ON WEST FARMVILLE LAKE ROAD. SORRY, WEST FARMVILLE ROAD, BETWEEN PEPPERWOOD TRAIL AND AUBURN LAKES ROAD FOR A PROJECT KNOWN AS GREENWOOD VILLAGE. THE PLANNING COMMISSION UNANIMOUSLY RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THIS REQUEST BY A VOTE OF 9 TO 0 AT ITS AUGUST 14TH MEETING. THIS ITEM WAS POSTPONED FROM THE OCTOBER 21ST MEETING AND A MOTION IS NEEDED. MOVE FOR APPROVAL. SECOND. ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. GO AHEAD AND OPEN THE. WE DON'T HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS, RIGHT? IT'S AN ANNEXATION. AND YOU DON'T NEED UNANIMOUS CONSENT BECAUSE YOU'VE ALREADY A SECOND. SO, ANY COMMENTS FROM. ANY MY THOUGHTS? [02:45:04] COMMENTS? QUESTIONS. OKAY. LINDSAY. ROLL CALL. ADAMS. YES, MA'AM. DAWSON. YES, MA'AM. GRISWOLD. YES, MA'AM. YES, MA'AM. PARSONS. YES. TAYLOR. YES. YES. ANDERS. YES. OKAY. MOTION CARRIES. ITEM NINE, C FOUR IS A REQUEST TO ANNEX APPROXIMATELY 85.85 ACRES OF [9.b.4.Cole Place, Phase 1 Annexation. Annexation of approximately 85.85 acres. Society Hill Road, east of Nash Creek Drive and north of the Mitchell Farms development (ADARE). Unanimous consent necessary.] PROPERTY LOCATED ON SOCIETY HILL ROAD, EAST OF NASH CREEK DRIVE AND NORTH OF MITCHELL FARMS DEVELOPMENT FOR A PROJECT KNOWN AS COLE PLACE PHASE ONE. THE PLANNING COMMISSION UNANIMOUSLY RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THIS REQUEST AT ITS NOVEMBER 13TH MEETING. THE APPLICANT HAS REQUESTED THAT YOU POSTPONE THIS ITEM TO DECEMBER 16TH. UNANIMOUS CONSENT IS NECESSARY. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO POSTPONE THIS ITEM TO A DATE CERTAIN OF DECEMBER 17TH. IS THAT CORRECT? 16TH. 16TH. EXCUSE ME. ARE YOU OKAY WITH THIS BEING FIRST READING? I AM OKAY WITH THIS BEING FIRST READING. YES, MA'AM. OKAY, SECOND. SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND TO POSTPONE TO DECEMBER THE 16TH. JUST A VOICE VOTE. BE FINE. YEAH. ANY DISCUSSION ABOUT THE DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT? EVERYBODY GOOD? OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? AND THE MOTION CARRIES, AND WE'LL HEAR THIS ON DECEMBER THE 16TH. ITEM 9C5 IS A REQUEST TO ANNEX APPROXIMATELY 31.3 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED BETWEEN WEST FARMVILLE ROAD AND MRS JAMES ROAD. [9.b.5.Smith Annexation. Approximately 31.3 acres. Property located between W Farmville Road and Mrs. James Road. Unanimous consent necessary.] THE PLANNING COMMISSION UNANIMOUSLY RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THIS REQUEST AT ITS OCTOBER 9TH MEETING. UNANIMOUS CONSENT IS NECESSARY. I'LL INTRODUCE THE ORDINANCE AND ASK FOR UNANIMOUS CONSENT. SECOND. MOTION SECOND. COUNCIL HAVE A PROBLEM MOVING FORWARD WITH A VOTE ON THIS THIS EVENING. SEEING OR HEARING NONE OF THE DISCUSSIONS OR QUESTIONS. THOUGHTS? OKAY, LINDSAY, WITH THE ROLL CALL. YES. EXCUSE ME. THIS COMES IN AS RURAL. WHAT? WHAT'S THE PLAN FOR THIS FOLLOWING THE ANNEXATION? YOU'VE GOT A REZONING REQUEST ON THE NEXT AGENDA ITEM. OH, I SAID HEY, SO THAT'S THE ONE YOU CHANGED THE NAME ON SMITH? OKAY. YEP. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU. YEAH. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? ALL RIGHT. LINDSAY COBLENTZ. YES, MA'AM. DAWSON. YES, MA'AM. GRISWOLD. YES, MA'AM. YES, MA'AM. PARSONS. YES. TAYLOR. YES. WHITTON. YES. ADAMS. YES. ANDERS. YES. ALL RIGHT. MOTION CARRIES. ITEM NINE. C-6 IS A REQUEST TO REZONE APPROXIMATELY 58 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED BETWEEN WEST FARMVILLE ROAD AND MRS JAMES ROAD, [9.b.6.Rezoning. Mrs. James Road. Approximately 58 acres from Rural (R) to Large Lot Residential District (LLRD). Property located between West Farmville Road and Mrs. James Road. Unanimous consent necessary. Public hearing required] FROM RURAL TO LARGE LOT RESIDENTIAL ZONING DISTRICT PLANNING COMMISSION UNANIMOUSLY RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THIS REQUEST AT ITS OCTOBER 9TH MEETING. UNANIMOUS CONSENT IS NECESSARY AND A PUBLIC HEARING IS REQUIRED. I INTRODUCE THE ORDINANCE AND ASK FOR UNANIMOUS CONSENT. SECOND, WILL THE COUNCIL HAVE A PROBLEM MOVING FORWARD AND VOTE ON THIS THIS EVENING? HEARING NONE, WE'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. ANYONE LIKE TO ADDRESS CITY COUNCIL? PLEASE GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. FOR THE RECORD, YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO SPEAK TO THE COUNCIL. SO MY NAME IS THOMAS SMITH. ADDRESS 3799 LEE ROAD 72. THIRD GENERATION OUT THERE ON THAT AREA. REALTOR FOR 35 YEARS. I'M PRETTY SURE THAT IT'S HARD FOR COUNTY RESIDENTS TO UNDERSTAND THIS WHOLE PROCESS THAT GOES THROUGH WHEN SOMETHING HAPPENS. I'VE BEEN THROUGH IT MULTIPLE TIMES ON MULTIPLE PROPERTY OUT THERE, SO I HAD A HANDS UP KUDOS TO THE PLANNING BOARD FOR KEEPING ME AND GETTING ME UP TO SPEED ON THE PROCESSES AND HOW THIS WILL PROCEED. BECAUSE OF THE ENGINEERING SIDE OF THIS PROJECT AND HOW IT WILL AFFECT THE REST OF OUR FAMILY FARM. WITH THAT BEING SAID, I FOUND OUT LATER THAT I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE RIGHT TIME, BUT I WAS MAKING SURE THAT WE WERE NEEDING ACCESS TO TWO PROPERTIES THAT ADJOINED THIS THAT ARE LANDLOCKED WITH STUB OUTS. SO BECAUSE IT'S NOT THIS GENERATION THAT'S GOING TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT THE NEXT GENERATION WILL, WHICH IS HOW WE ARE STANDING WHERE WE ARE NOW. SO I STILL DO NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND FROM THE CITY HOW A COUNTY RESIDENTS WILL BE INVOLVED WITH THE PROCESS OF DESIGN AND PLANNING AND MAKING SURE THAT WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN FOR THE CONTINUAL DEVELOPMENT IN THAT AREA, BECAUSE THERE'S FIVE PIECES OF PROPERTY RIGHT THERE WITH TWO OTHERS THAT JOIN IT. THAT'S THE ONLY THING BETWEEN THIS CITY LIMITS AND THE NEXT CITY LIMITS. SO AS A REAL ESTATE PERSON, I UNDERSTAND DEVELOPMENT NEEDS TO HAPPEN. CONTINUOUS PROCESS NEEDS TO HAPPEN. TRAFFIC FLOW NEEDS TO BE TAKEN CARE OF. I DON'T WANT TO BE THE STUMBLING BLOCK FOR THAT TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE FOR THE CITY WITH THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY. SO THAT'S I'M JUST HERE TRYING TO CLARIFY WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE HAPPEN WITH THIS GOING THROUGH, BECAUSE OTHER THAN THAT, IT'S AS GOOD AS WE COULD EVER ASK FOR ON THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY BEING DEVELOPED. [02:50:02] WELL THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR COMING FORWARD. WHEN WE GET THROUGH THE PUBLIC HEARING, WE'LL SEE IF WE CAN GET SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED. THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE? OKAY. WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. MISS CROUCH, IS THERE ANY WAY WE CAN ANSWER A FEW OF THE QUESTIONS ABOUT SOME OUTS AND OTHER THINGS? I'LL HAVE OUR PLANNING DIRECTOR, PLEASE. YEAH, SO? SO SO WE'VE SPOKEN IN THE PAST ABOUT THIS. SO OFTENTIMES WHEN PEOPLE SUBMIT A REZONING REQUEST, THEY MUST SUBMIT THE SITE PLAN, KIND OF GENERALLY WHAT IT WILL LOOK LIKE. I THINK SOMETIMES THAT IS CONFUSING FOR PEOPLE WHO COME FORWARD AND THEY SEE IT, AND THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT LAYOUT AT THAT TIME. BUT THE TIME TO TALK ABOUT THE LAYOUT SPECIFICALLY IS AT THE PRELIMINARY PLAT, AND THAT'S WHAT WE DISCUSSED. AND SO AT THAT TIME WHEN A PRELIMINARY PLAT IS SUBMITTED, THAT'S WHEN COMMENTS WILL BE MADE FROM ENGINEERING REGARDING IF THERE ABOUTS WILL BE REQUIRED. AND THAT WOULD BE THE TIME TO CONDITION ON THE PRELIMINARY PLAT. IF A STUB OUT IS NOT PROVIDED TO THEN REQUIRE IT. AND SO JUST I KNOW THERE'S A SITE PLAN ATTACHED TO THIS, BUT THIS IS REALLY JUST KIND OF FOR A VISUAL AID, THE PART WHERE WE CAN THEN DETERMINE AND CODIFY SOME OF THOSE, SOME OF THOSE CONNECTIVITY ASPECTS, AS LATER IN THE PROCESS AT PRELIMINARY PLAT. THAT WILL HAPPEN AT PLANNING COMMISSION. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WELL, MR. SMITH, BE AWARE OF WHEN THAT IS WHERE HE CAN PARTICIPATE IN THAT CONVERSATION OR OBSERVE THAT CONVERSATION. GREAT QUESTION. SO ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNER NOTICES WILL GO OUT SIMILAR TO THIS. AND THERE WILL ALSO BE A PUBLIC HEARING AT PLANNING COMMISSION WHERE HE CAN VOICE HIS OPINION AND VOICE HIS CONCERNS ABOUT THE LAYOUT IF IT DOES NOT MEET HIS EXPECTATIONS. OKAY. AND I ALSO ENCOURAGE, AS ALWAYS OVER THE YEARS, PLANNING COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS TEND TO HAVE AN EXPECTATION THAT DEVELOPERS TALK TO THEIR ADJOINING PROPERTY OWNERS OUTSIDE OF THOSE MEETINGS, IF POSSIBLE AND FEASIBLE. OKAY. AND WE'LL COMMUNICATE THAT TO THE DEVELOPER TO PLEASE TALK TO YOUR NEIGHBORS. OKAY, GOOD. I MEAN, THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO DO SO, BUT I UNDERSTAND. I KNOW HOW TYPICALLY YOU GUYS FEEL ABOUT THAT. WE'LL ENCOURAGE THEM TO. ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? JUST OVER ONE ACRE. LOTS. YEAH. YEP. FOR 42 HOMES. AND THAT IS REALLY THE POSSIBILITY. BUT THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE PLAT. CORRECT. THE REZONING IS WHAT THEY'RE CONSIDERING. YEAH. THAT'S CORRECT. YEAH. THIS IS THIS IS MERELY JUST A VISUAL AID OF WHAT THAT DENSITY WOULD LOOK LIKE ON THIS SITE. IT'S GIVING YOU AN IDEA. THEY'RE NOT BOUND. IF YOU ADOPT THIS ZONING TONIGHT, THEY ARE NOT BOUND TO THIS PLAN. THEY'RE BOUND TO THE ONE ACRE LOT MINIMUMS. CORRECT. OKAY. AND SO JUST BECAUSE WE JUST HAD THIS LENGTHY CONVERSATION ABOUT FUTURE LAND USE PLANS THE FUTURE LAND USE FOR THIS AREA IS RURAL. THAT IS CORRECT. THIS WOULD BE A DEVIATION FROM THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN. OKAY. AND WE HAVE A RECOMMENDED APPROVAL FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSION OF 7 TO 0 KNOWING THAT. YEP. AND SO AND SO I GUESS THERE WAS SOME CONTEXT WITH THIS PIECE THAT ACTUALLY DID INFLUENCE THE EARLY PART OF THE CONVERSATION, JUST KIND OF AROUND, AROUND AROUND CAPACITY AND, AND UTILITY PLANNING. THAT THE RIGHT OF WAY IN THIS AND THE CONNECTION BETWEEN, I GUESS. I GUESS FARMVILLE AND MRS JAMES ROAD WOULD THEN MAKE POSSIBLE. AND SO THOSE ARE JUST, JUST SOME THINGS FROM THE CONTEXT OF ALL THE THINGS GOING ON, GOING ON AROUND. IT JUST KIND OF LIKE I SAID, THE UTILITY PLANNING, ALSO MAKING, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE LOW PRESSURE WATER, LOW PRESSURE WATER SYSTEM AS WELL, WAS WAS ALSO GOING TO BE A PART OF THIS DEVELOPMENT AS WELL. SO THOSE ARE ALL THINGS THAT WERE PRESENTED TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION THAT REFLECTS WHY THEY VOTED THAT WAY. SO THE PREVIOUS ACTIONS THAT WE TOOK ON THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT THEY ARE REQUIRED TO ENSURE THAT THE SEWER WORKS OR THE, THE I GUESS ERIC WOULD PROBABLY SPEAK TO THE PRESSURE SYSTEM. YEP. THAT'S RIGHT THERE. THEY'RE GOING TO BE REQUIRED TO INSTALL LOW PRESSURE SEWER SYSTEM THAT WOULD TIE INTO A LOCAL LIFT STATION. OKAY. YEAH. AT THEIR COST. AT THEIR COST. YES. WELL AND AND TO ADD TO THAT, THIS DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT SPEAKS SPECIFICALLY TO THE FACT THAT THEY'VE GOT TO HAVE THAT SYSTEM IN PLACE BEFORE THEY START GETTING BUILDING PERMITS. OKAY. SO THAT COMES FIRST. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? OKAY. LINDSAY. DAWSON. YES, MA'AM. YES, MA'AM. YES, MA'AM. PARSONS. YES. TAYLOR. YES. YES. ADAMS. YES. YES, MA'AM. YES. ALL RIGHT. MOTION CARRIES RESOLUTIONS. ITEM TEN, A ONE IS A REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE. [10.a.1.665 Opelika Road. Institutional use (church)] APPROVAL OF AN INSTITUTIONAL USE A CHURCH TO BE LOCATED IN A SMALL PORTION OF AN EXISTING BUILDING LOCATED AT 665 OPELIKA ROAD IN THE CORRIDOR. REDEVELOPMENT. URBAN ZONING DISTRICT PLANNING COMMISSION UNANIMOUSLY RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THIS REQUEST AT ITS NOVEMBER 13TH MEETING. [02:55:05] A PUBLIC HEARING IS REQUIRED. MOVE APPROVAL. SECOND. WE HAVE A MOTION A SECOND. AT THIS TIME. I'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. IF YOU'D LIKE TO ADDRESS CITY COUNCIL ABOUT THIS, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. FOR THE RECORD, YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES. SEEING NO ONE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS FROM THE COUNCIL? JUST A COUPLE QUESTIONS. THIS IS A CONDITIONAL USE APPROVAL FOR INSTITUTIONAL USE. AND IT LOOKS LIKE THIS IS JUST FOR ONE ROOM IN IN ON THIS ADDRESS. THAT'S THAT'S CORRECT. AND BY THE ONE ROOM, THEY COULD NOT EXPAND IT FURTHER IF YOU WERE TO APPROVE THIS WITHOUT COMING BACK. YEAH, THAT IS CORRECT. AND SO STAFF STAFF ASKED. THAT WAS A QUESTION THAT PLANNING COMMISSION WAS ALSO A QUESTION THAT STAFF HAD IS WHAT WAS THE ATTENDANCE OF THE CHURCH. AND THE APPLICANT STATED THAT THIS WAS A VERY SMALL CHURCH. I THINK LESS THAN TWO DOZEN PEOPLE WHERE THEY WERE JUST GOING TO BE OCCUPYING ONE ROOM, THE REST OF THE FACILITY WAS GOING TO BE USED AND CONVERTED TO OFFICES WHICH IS A PERMITTED BY RIGHT USE IN THIS ZONE. AND SO THEREFORE THEY DID NOT HAVE TO COME FORWARD WITH CONDITIONAL USE. CHURCHES ARE A CONDITIONAL USE IN EVERY SINGLE ZONING DISTRICT. SO THAT IS WHY THEY NEED TO PROVIDE A SITE PLAN THAT SHOWED WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO BE AND WHAT PART THEY'RE GOING TO OCCUPY, SO THEY CANNOT EXPAND BEYOND THE CONFINES OF THAT ROOM. FOR A CHURCH PURPOSE ON LIKE A WEEKLY BASIS, THEY'D HAVE TO COME BACK. LIKE THE CITY MANAGER STATED, THEY WANTED ANOTHER ROOM. THEY WOULD HAVE TO COME BACK AND GET A CONDITIONAL USE. USE AN ADDITIONAL ROOM. YES, BECAUSE THEY ARE BOUND BY THE SITE PLAN THAT THEY SUBMITTED. AND THE REST OF WHAT THEY HAVE TOLD US IS THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE CONVERTING THIS SPACE TO OFFICES IS WHAT THEY'RE DOING, AND SO IT'S GOING TO BE USED. IT USED TO BE OFFICES IN THE PAST. AND SO THEY HAVE LEASES SET UP FOR OFFICES GOING FORWARD. JUST THEY JUST WANT TO USE THIS SMALL SECTION OF THE SPACE OF THE BUILDING FOR A CHURCH. AND I SAID STAFF HAD A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT IN THE PRE APP. AND THEN WE ALSO HAD A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT AT PLANNING COMMISSION, JUST BECAUSE I THINK FUTURE EXPANSIONS OF CHURCHES, AND I GUESS THEIR AMBITIONS HAS CAUSED A LOT OF CONCERNS. JUST KIND OF WISH GRANTING THAT CONDITIONAL USE. AND SO THOSE ARE THINGS THAT THEY WANTED CLARITY ON AND CERTAINTY JUST KIND OF MOVING FORWARD ABOUT WHAT THE ASPIRATIONS OF THE CHURCH WERE IN THIS LOCATION. CURRENTLY, WE DON'T HAVE ANY ISSUES. THERE'S NO ISSUES WITH PARKING WITH THIS ROOM. NO. AND I SAID THAT'S BECAUSE THE CONGREGATION IS SO SMALL. LIKE I SAID, ROUGHLY ABOUT TWO DOZEN PEOPLE WITH NO AMBITIONS TO ADD A SCHOOL, NO AMBITIONS TO HAVE MULTIPLE SERVICES KIND OF THING. IT WAS JUST GOING TO BE THEY WERE MEETING IN THIS SPACE, JUST KIND OF STARTING, STARTING OUT FOR A VERY SMALL CHURCH. DOES GRANTING THIS CONDITIONAL USE APPROVAL PUT US IN A SITUATION WHERE WE WOULD BE. FORCED TO GRANT OR I SAY NOT FORCED, BUT IN A SITUATION WHERE WE WHERE WE COULD NOT DENY AN ASSOCIATED SCHOOL. WELL, NOT JUST THE EXPANSION OF THE USE. SAY YES. SO I GUESS KIND OF, I WOULD SAY WITHIN REASON. BECAUSE BECAUSE I, BECAUSE I THINK THAT THAT'S THE THING. LIKE I SAID, STAFF AND PLANNING COMMISSION DID NOT HAVE PARKING CONCERNS BECAUSE THE CURRENT CONGREGATION IS SO SMALL. IF WE WERE SEEING AND NOTICING THINGS WHERE THE CONGREGATION WAS EXPANDING TO WHERE IT WAS A POINT OF, WELL, ACTUALLY WE'RE GOING TO TAKE ON THIS WHOLE THING. WE'RE GOING TO REMODEL THIS. I THINK WE'D HAVE A LOT MORE QUESTIONS FROM A CAPACITY STANDPOINT, INGRESS AND EGRESS, AND WE WOULD BE JUSTIFIED IN ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS AND EVEN POSSIBLY DENYING THAT THAT CONDITIONAL USE, BECAUSE THE THE CONDITIONS OF THE PROPERTY WOULD HAVE CHANGED SO MUCH IN THE USE. PERFECT. THANK YOU. CAN I PIGGYBACK ON THAT? I KNOW YOU CAN'T ANSWER FOR THE CHURCH, BUT 2000 MEMBERS IS A BIG CHURCH. TWO DOZEN, TWO DOZEN DOZEN 2000 MEMBERS IS A DIFFERENT CHURCH. I'D AGREE WITH YOU. YEAH. OH, OKAY. THANK YOU. IT'S GETTING LATE. THERE WE GO. WE'RE HEARING THINGS. RUMORS GET STARTED, SO I NEEDED THAT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. ANYONE ELSE? SO HOW MUCH OFFICE SPACE ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT? I THINK THE REST OF THE FACILITY IS WHAT THE PROPERTY OWNER SAID HE HAD AMBITIONS FOR. AND LIKE I SAID, THAT IS A BY RIGHT USE. AND SO THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IF THEY WERE GOING TO CONVERT THE SPACE OR DO ANY INTERNAL RENOVATIONS. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE HANDLED IN CODES AND NOT SOMETHING WHERE THEY'D HAVE TO COME THROUGH PLANNING FOR JUST THE OLD BUILDING. YEAH, THIS IS THE I THINK THERE USED TO BE MEDICAL FACILITIES HERE. YES. CATFISH PLACE. YES. YEP YEP YEP. AND CATFISH AT THAT PLACE? YEAH. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? ANY OTHER COMMENTS? ALL RIGHT. WE GOT A MOTION AND A SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? ALL RIGHT. MOTION CARRIES. ITEM 1082 IS A REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE. APPROVAL OF A COMMERCIAL AND ENTERTAINMENT USE PACKAGE, A PACKAGE STORE TO BE LOCATED AT 114 WEST MAGNOLIA AVENUE, [10.a.2.Alley Glass Package Store. Commercial and entertainment use (package store). Property located at 114 West Magnolia Avenue, Suite D. ] SUITE D IN THE URBAN CORE WITH A COLLEGE OVERLAY ZONING DISTRICT. THE PLANNING COMMISSION UNANIMOUSLY RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THIS REQUEST AT ITS NOVEMBER 13TH MEETING. A PUBLIC HEARING IS REQUIRED. MOVE FOR APPROVAL. [03:00:05] SECOND. MOTION AND SECOND. PUBLIC HEARING. EXCUSE ME. IF YOU'D LIKE TO ADDRESS CITY COUNCIL, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. FOR THE RECORD, YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO SPEAK TO THE COUNCIL. SEE, NO ONE WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS FROM THE COUNCIL? I WALKED BACK THERE AND LOOKED AT IT. APPARENTLY IT'S A PORTION OF THE CURRENT BUSINESS. THEY HAVE DESIGNATED TO BE A PACKAGE STORE. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. MIKE. THAT'S CORRECT. MISS CROUCH, DO WE HAVE A HEALTH SAFETY WELFARE CONCERN WITH THE PACKAGE STORE BEING THIS CLOSE TO TWO? WELL, IT'S ULTIMATELY FOR THE COUNCIL TO DETERMINE THERE ARE TWO VERY LARGE, LARGE CAPACITY LOUNGES ON EITHER SIDE OF THIS, BASICALLY ON TWO ADJACENT PROPERTIES AND IN BOTH EAST AND WEST OF HERE. OKAY. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? QUESTIONS? YES, KELLY. WE WE RECENTLY DENIED A CONDITIONAL USE BECAUSE OF THE PORTA POTS COMING OFF THE EXIT INTO AUBURN. WE DIDN'T THINK THAT WOULD REALLY BE THE RIGHT MESSAGE TO SEND. AND FRANKLY, I DON'T THINK A LIQUOR STORE ON TUMORS CORNER IS THE RIGHT MESSAGE TO SEND EITHER. SO. I AGREE WITH COLONEL GRISWOLD. I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS IDEA. I CAN DEFINITELY TELL YOU IT'S A PUBLIC SAFETY CONCERN. I TELL YOU THAT. ANYONE ELSE? OKAY. I YEAH, ACTUALLY SUPPORT THIS. GIVEN THE RECENT DENIALS OF THIS COUNCIL ON PACKAGE STORES IN NEIGHBORING IN AREAS OF THE CITY THAT ARE PROXIMATE TO NEIGHBORHOODS. THIS IS REALLY A DOWNTOWN SITUATION. AND I WAS READING THE STAFF COMMENTS ABOUT IT REPEATEDLY SAID THAT THIS IS A THAT IT FALLS WITHIN THE, THE, THE USES OF THIS PARTICULAR ZONE. I QUITE LIKE THE FACT THAT IT IS IN TERMS OF ITS VISUAL IMPACT ON DOWNTOWN. IT IS TUCKED AWAY IN THAT ALLEYWAY. SO I'M NOT NECESSARILY CONCERNED THAT IT IS RISING TO THE LEVEL OF THE PORTA POTTY SITUATION, WHICH WAS PARTICULARLY VISIBLE. SO SO IN THAT SENSE I THINK YOU HAVE TO TRUST THE PEOPLE IN YOUR CITY TO ACT RESPONSIBLY IN AN AREA WHERE IT'S PERFECTLY FINE FOR THIS TYPE OF USE. THANK YOU, MR. PARSONS. ANYONE ELSE? MR.. QUESTION, IS IT. HOURS OF OPERATION. ARE THEY LIMITED IN THIS WITH THIS TYPE OF FACILITY OR THIS TYPE? THEY'RE ONLY LIMITED BY STATE LAW. WE DON'T HAVE A FURTHER LIMITATION IN ANY CITY ORDINANCE ABOUT IT. OR YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE ANY LIMITATIONS, THOUGH IT WOULD BE THE THE TIME IN WHICH ALL PRIVATE PACKAGE TOURS, IT'S TYPICALLY THE 2 A.M. PIECE. OKAY. THE 2 A.M. WOULD COINCIDE WITH SERVING ALCOHOL. SERVING OF ALCOHOL AND NEIGHBORING AREAS. SO YOU CAN'T LEAVE HERE AND GO GET YOU ANOTHER STOP BY THIS PACKAGE STORE OR WHATNOT. IT JUST DEPENDS ON WHAT TIME YOU LEAVE. IF YOU LEAVE AT 2 A.M., I'M SAYING. YEAH. EXCUSE ME. I SHOULD HAVE CLARIFIED THAT IF WE'RE HERE UNTIL TWO, WE HAVE ISSUES. YES, I AGREE. OKAY. ANYONE ELSE? OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? PLEASE SAY NAY. NAY. NAY. THAT WAS ONE DAY. I MEAN, ONE EYE AND ALL. IT WAS ONE EYE. OKAY, LINDSAY, YOU GOT WHAT YOU NEED. GOT IT. OKAY. OKAY, SO MOTION FAILS. ITEM TEN A THREE IS A REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE. APPROVAL OF A PERFORMANCE. RESIDENTIAL USE A SEVEN UNIT MULTI MULTIPLE UNIT DEVELOPMENT ON APPROXIMATELY 0.7 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED AT 305 WARRIOR COURT AND THE CORRIDOR [10.a.3.Warrior Court MUD. Performance residential use (Multi-Unit Development). Property located at 305 Warrior Court.] REDEVELOPMENT WEST ZONING DISTRICT PLANNING COMMISSION UNANIMOUSLY RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF THIS REQUEST AT ITS NOVEMBER 13TH MEETING. A PUBLIC HEARING IS REQUIRED. MOVE FOR APPROVAL. SECOND. MOTION AND SECOND. THIS TIME I'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. IF YOU'D LIKE TO ADDRESS CITY COUNCIL, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS. FOR THE RECORD, YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES TO SPEAK TO THE COUNCIL. ANYONE. OKAY, WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS FROM THE COUNCIL? [03:05:07] YES, SIR. YES. I'M SORRY. OKAY. YEP. THAT ROAD'S GOT A PRETTY GOOD CURVE TO IT. AND IT HAS PARKING ALL UP AND DOWN ON ONE SIDE OF THE STREET. AND FRANKLY, I HAVE DIFFICULTY GETTING MY PICKUP TRUCK THROUGH THERE, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THESE. THIS DEVELOPMENT'S GOING TO HAVE DOUBLE PARKING. SO YOU CAN ANTICIPATE SOMETIME PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE PARKING ON THE STREET INSTEAD OF DOUBLE PARKING. THE LOCAL FRATERNITY UP THERE ON THE CORNER OF WHAT IS THAT? BRAGG COLLEGE. COLLEGE. THOSE KIDS PARK THERE ALL THE TIME. AND I KNOW THAT BECAUSE OF THE ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNER HAS TALKED TO ME ABOUT THEM CUTTING THROUGH ALL THE TIME. SO HE'S PUTTING UP A NEW FENCE, BY THE WAY I THINK THE DEPOT EMPLOYEES ALSO PARK OVER THERE. SO I MEAN, THIS I'M NOT OPPOSED TO THAT PLACE BEING DEVELOPED, BUT I DO OPPOSE THAT. IT'S BEING BEEN DEVELOPED TO THE BASICALLY TO THE MAXIMUM CAPACITY THAT'S FEASIBLE. WHEREAS THIS WHAT NINE NINE BUILDINGS IS THAT WHAT'S GOING ON IN THAT LITTLE SEVEN, SEVEN, SEVEN, 0.7 ACRES ON SEVEN ACRES? AND I MIGHT HAVE SAID, IS IT NINE OR IS IT SEVEN? THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN MY BAD. NO NO NO IT'S IT'S IT'S SEVEN, SEVEN, SEVEN. SO SEVEN BUILDINGS ON THAT LITTLE POINT WHATEVER IT IS ACRES. SO I, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE ABILITY TO ACCESS THE PROPERTY IN THE CASE OF AN EMERGENCY. AND I'M ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT THE IMPACT ON, ON THE STREET AND THE ABILITY TO GET THROUGH THERE. MEGAN, ARE THERE ANY IMPROVEMENTS OR POLICIES WE CAN? I MEAN, I AGREE WITH KELLY. IT'S HARD FOR ME TO PALISADE MY PALISADE TO GET DOWN THERE, BUT IS THERE ANY POLICIES? WELL, ONE OF THE THINGS I'LL HAVE OUR INTERIM CITY ENGINEER SPEAK TO IT. I MEAN, WE ALREADY RESTRICTED ON ONE SIDE, AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO EVALUATE WITH PUBLIC SAFETY OUR ABILITY TO GET EQUIPMENT UP AND DOWN. AND WE DID HAVE SOMETHING HAPPEN RIGHT AT AT RIGHT AT THE PM RUSH HOUR, RIGHT AT COLLEGE AND, AND BRAGG IN THAT VICINITY THAT CAUSED PEOPLE TO NEED TO GET DOWN THIS WAY AND WHAT HAVE YOU AND BRANDY DO. THE OTHER POTENTIAL SOLUTION IS TO STUDY WHETHER OR NOT WE ALLOW ON STREET PARKING THERE AT ALL. YES, THAT IS CORRECT. AND SO IF YOU GUYS ARE INTERESTED IN RESTRICTING PARKING, WE CAN LOOK INTO THAT. WE CAN BRING A RESOLUTION BEFORE YOU TO RESTRICT ALL PARKING ON WARRIOR COURT, IF THAT IS WHAT YOU CHOOSE TO DO, WOULD BE PART OF THEIR DEVELOPMENT APPROVAL. IT'S JUST PART OF WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE DONE. AND WE CAN DO THAT. THAT DOES IMPACT PROBABLY SOME PEOPLE AND EXISTING PROPERTY OWNERS IN THE AREA, AND THAT'S JUST WHAT YOU NEED TO THINK ABOUT. SURE. BECAUSE COLLEGE STREET IS DEFINITELY A NO NO FOR PARKING. YOU CAN'T PARK ON MITCHAM, YOU CAN'T PARK ON BRAGG. WELL, PEOPLE PARK KIND OF SIDEWALK ADJACENT ON BRAGG, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. NOT IN THE STREET ITSELF. CAN OF OPTION BE TO MAKE IT A ONE WAY. I THINK ANYTHING IS AN OPTION. WE COULD LOOK AT, SEE WHAT TRAFFIC IMPACTS THAT WOULD HAVE AND WHICH WAY IT WOULD NEED TO GO. I THINK WOULD BE THE QUESTIONS THAT COME TO MY MIND IMMEDIATELY. WHAT DOES THAT WHAT DOES THAT ENTAIL? I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT A LOT OF STUDIES HERE TONIGHT, BUT WHAT WOULD IT TAKE FOR STAFF TO GO AND STUDY WARRIOR COURT AND EVALUATE THAT AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE COUNCIL? IS THAT SOMETHING THAT CAN BE. WELL, WE CAN DO ALL OF THAT. THAT'S TYPICALLY AN IN-HOUSE STUDY. WHEN WE LOOK AT THINGS, ONE OF OUR CHALLENGES WITH THE ONE WAY PIECE IS NOBODY'S GOING TO AGREE WITH WHICHEVER WAY WE BECAUSE COLLEGE STREET'S NOT EASY TO GET OUT ON EXCEPT FOR A RIGHT TURN MOVEMENT THERE. AND, YOU KNOW, BRAGG AT TIMES ALSO TRAFFIC IS STACKED LIKE WARRIOR COURT IS A TINY LITTLE STREET THAT THAT RUNS THROUGH THERE. SO THERE'S NOT A AN EASY SOLUTION. HOWEVER, TYPICALLY IF YOU WERE TO REMOVE ON STREET PARKING, YOU OFTEN DON'T MAKE IT ONE WAY. IT JUST DEPENDS IF IT IF ITS WIDTH AND ITS FUNCTIONALITY. IT'S ABOUT THE WIDTH OF FIRE TRUCKS. CAN WE GET THE LADDER DOWN IT? CAN WE GET WHATEVER WE NEED AND WE GO FROM THERE, BUT WE'RE HAPPY TO LOOK AT IT. IF YOU WANT US TO DO THAT AS PART OF IF THIS DEVELOPMENT IS GOING TO PROCEED, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU DECIDE, THEN WE'LL GLADLY LOOK AT THAT. MOST OF YOU ARE NODDING AT ME THAT YOU WANT US TO LOOK AT THAT, SO WE WILL. YES. QUICK QUESTION. HOW LONG HAVE WE EVEN BEEN AWARE OF THIS CONCEPT OF STACKED PARKING? IS IT? I KNOW OUR PLANNING DIRECTOR HAS ADDRESSED IT IN SEVERAL MEETINGS AGO, AND I THINK SINCE HE'S BEEN HERE, AND I THINK SOME THINGS HE MAY HAVE INHERITED. YEAH. SO THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. LIKE I SAID, IT'S IT'S STARTING TO COME UP MORE. AND THE REASON THAT IT'S COMING UP MORE IS IT IS A GEOMETRY SOLUTION TO THE SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT THESE SITES HAVE FROM A PARKING STANDPOINT AND WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO. AND SO WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT INTERNALLY. I THINK WE HAVE SOME GENERAL LANGUAGE THAT WE'RE COMFORTABLE WITH. I THINK WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IS HOW DO WE IMPLEMENT IT AND CODIFY IT, WHETHER THAT BE IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE OR WHETHER THAT BE IN THE CONSTRUCTION AND ENGINEERING MANUAL. BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE LOOKED AT. [03:10:02] OTHER CITIES HAVE EMBRACED IT. I THINK WE ARE JUST IN THE PROCESS OF TRYING TO GRAPPLE AND WRESTLE WITH WHAT WE ARE COMFORTABLE WITH AND KIND OF HOW WE'RE GOING TO IMPLEMENT IT. AND IT'S DEFINITELY A MARKET CONDITION. AND IT'S AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS AT A PREVIOUS MEETING. IT'S THE TENANTS ABILITY TO, TO DEAL WITH IT, YOU KNOW, GOING TO UNDERGRADUATE SCHOOL IN LOS ANGELES, I KNOWINGLY SIGNED A LEASE THAT WE HAD TANDEM PARKING, AND THEN WE HAD THE THIRD SPACE AND ALL OF US TENANTS FOUGHT OVER WHO GOT THE SINGLE CAR SPACE ON A GIVEN DAY. IT WAS FIRST COME, FIRST SERVED, BUT IT BECOMES A MARKET CONDITION AND A LANDLORD TENANT CONDITION. TO COUNCILMAN GRISWOLD'S POINT, THOUGH, HOWEVER, IT WILL BLEED SOME CARS ONTO THE STREET OR INTO THE ADJACENT BUSINESSES PARKING LOTS OR SOME OF THE ON STREET PARKING WE HAVE ON COLLEGE. AND THAT'S JUST A NORMAL PART OF IT. AND SO IF YOU'RE ALSO SAYING YOU WANT TO TAKE A HARDER LOOK AND YOU'RE NOT SURE HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT TANDEM PARKING, THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN ALSO BRING FORWARD. YEP, THAT IS CORRECT. I MEAN, LIKE I SAID, FOR IT IS AT ITS CORE, IT IS A GEOMETRY SOLUTION FOR THEM BECAUSE WHEN YOU ENTERTAIN PARKING OR WHERE YOU WHERE YOU NEED TO HAVE IT THERE, DRIVE OUT REQUIREMENTS THERE WITH REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT THERE PARKING MOVEMENTS. AND SO OFTENTIMES AND IT WAS A IT'S MORE OF A FACTOR ON SOME OF THE MORE URBAN DEVELOPMENTS. AND THIS WOULD KIND OF COUNT. BUT I'M THINKING MORE OF THE SANFORD HILL DEVELOPMENT AT WRIGHTSVILLE AND SANFORD, WHERE THE WIDTH OF THE DRIVEWAY AND THAT DRIVE OUT SPACE WAS A REALLY BIG DISCUSSION POINT IN. DR.. AND WHEN THEY CAN DO TANDEM PARKING LIKE THIS IN THESE KINDS OF DEVELOPMENTS, THEY IT ALLOWS THEM TO SOLVE THAT GEOMETRY SOLUTION OF NOT HAVING TO CORRECT FOR SO MANY MOVEMENTS OF THE CARS GETTING IN AND OUT. THE DEVELOPER HAS ASKED TO SPEAK WITH THE COUNCIL, BE OKAY IF THE DEVELOPER COMES FORWARD AND AND CLARIFIES PROBABLY POTENTIALLY SOME THINGS AND MAYBE ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS. THIS IS OUT OF ORDER. I THINK THAT DEPENDS ON WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAVE QUESTIONS FOR THE DEVELOPER. YEAH, BECAUSE THE PUBLIC HEARING OPPORTUNITY HAS COME AND GONE. SURE. I HAVE A QUESTION. YOU HAVE QUESTIONS? OKAY. IS EVERYBODY OKAY WITH THAT? OKAY. HOW ARE Y'ALL? I'M DREW GARDNER FOR 32 PINEDALE DRIVE, AUBURN. I'M THE DEVELOPER. AND THIS IS BRETT BASQUIN, THE SITE ENGINEER. WANTED TO CLARIFY A FEW THINGS. OH, JUST ONE SECOND. OH. I'M SORRY. YES. QUESTION. DO YOU HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE TANDEM PARKING? AND IT LOOKS LIKE ON YOUR PRIVATE STREET, THERE MAY EVEN BE SOME OPPORTUNITY TO PARK OUTSIDE OF THAT, WITHIN YOUR OWN DEVELOPMENT ON THE PRIVATE STREET THAT THEY APPEAR TO BE PRETTY WIDE. YES. SO PARKING THE TANDEM PARKING, AS SOME OF YOU ALL HAVE SAID, AND AS MEGAN SAID, IT'S KIND OF A LITTLE BIT OF ITS OWN WHO'S LIVED THERE. BUT THE GOAL FOR THESE IS FOR SALE HOMES. WE ARE NOT TRYING TO PUT STUDENTS IN THESE. SO IT'S I KNOW THE REQUIREMENT IS ONE PER BEDROOM, BUT THE HOPE IS THAT THERE ARE NOT FOUR CARS AT EACH OF THESE HOUSES, THAT IT'S TWO CARS, THAT TYPE OF THING THAT PEOPLE ARE COMING AND GOING, SOME WE'RE NOT TRYING TO HAVE. WHAT IS IT, 28 TENANTS IN THERE PLUS THEIR GUESTS. SO I KNOW WE HAVE TO HAVE THAT PARKING REQUIREMENT. BUT THAT'S WHY WE'RE LOOKING AT TANDEM PARKING. IT HELPS WITH THE DEVELOPMENT. THERE IS ROOM FOR SOME KIND OF ON SITE STUFF. I KNOW MR. GRISWOLD SPOKE ABOUT THE WARRIOR COURT, KIND OF THE BEEN THERE AND THE AMOUNT OF CARS THERE, MOST OF THAT FROM WHEN I'VE DRIVEN THERE. I DRIVE A SUBURBAN AND I GET THROUGH THERE FINE, EVEN WHEN IT'S STACKED WITH CARS. AND THOSE SEEM TO BE COMING FROM TAVERN ON THE TRACKS. YOU KNOW, IT'S BECOME A BUSY BUSINESS. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN PARKING, BUT MOST OF THAT, THEY KIND OF LINE THAT THROUGH THERE. I'M STILL ABLE TO GET THROUGH. THIS IS KIND OF JUST A VACANT LOT IN THERE. YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK WARRIOR COURT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE MUCH LARGE SCALE DEVELOPMENT. I KNOW IT'S SEVEN UNITS THERE, BUT YOU LOOK FURTHER DOWN AND THERE'S SOME VERY DENSE APARTMENT COMPLEXES VERY NEARBY AND TRYING NOT TO DO THAT AND DO SOMETHING A LITTLE SMALLER SCALE WITH THE STANDALONE HOMES. SO THE OTHER PART IS THIS IS ESSENTIALLY AN URBAN SINGLE FAMILY. WE DON'T HAVE SEPARATE REQUIREMENTS. SO THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE IN OUR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD REQUIREMENTS TO DEVELOP A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL HOME. IT'S NO DIFFERENT IF I'M DOING IT IN ASHTON LAKES OR IN MOORESVILLE OR ANYTHING. IT ONLY THINKS OF IT'S VERY LIMITED. SO WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO APPLY THAT IN AN URBAN SITUATION LIKE THIS, WHEN YOU'RE SEEING THESE ARE STACKED, THIS IS ESSENTIALLY A HOUSE WITH A GARAGE. NO DIFFERENT THAN WHAT MOST OF US LIVE IN IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS. AND WHETHER WE'RE IN GROVE HILL OR ASHTON LAKES OR CAMDEN RIDGE. SO THESE ARE JUST HOMES WITH GARAGES THAT HAVE A DRIVEWAY APRON IN FRONT BECAUSE IT'S MULTI-UNIT AND WE CAN'T DEVELOP THESE AS SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL HOMES. TRADITIONALLY, THEY LOOK LIKE WHAT WE'RE SHOWING WHERE WE HAVE TO PARK IT. IF IT'S A SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU ONLY HAVE TO HAVE TWO PARKING SPACES AND MOST PEOPLE HAVE 1 OR 2 CAR GARAGE, RIGHT? SO THIS IS WE'RE SHOWING A TWO CAR GARAGE WITH AN APRON IN FRONT THAT SHOWS THAT YOU CAN PARK FOUR CARS THERE OUTSIDE OF THE ROAD, [03:15:07] AND THAT LIMITS US TO HOW MANY BEDROOMS WE CAN HAVE, BECAUSE WE HAVE TO DO IT TO A MULTI-UNIT REQUIREMENT AND NOT A TRADITIONAL SINGLE FAMILY. BUT THESE ARE SINGLE FAMILY HOMES FOR SALE IS WHAT? SO THESE ARE GOING TO LOOK LIKE HOUSES. THIS ISN'T AN APARTMENT COMPLEX. SO IT'S JUST IT'S JUST A LITTLE DIFFERENT OF A USE THAT URBAN. BUT WE REALLY TRADITIONALLY HAVEN'T SEEN MUCH SINGLE FAMILY DOWNTOWN IN THESE. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN TOWNHOMES OR APARTMENT STYLE CONDOS, NOT TRADITIONAL SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. IT'S JUST YOU JUST CAN'T. WE DON'T HAVE REQUIREMENTS HERE THAT ALLOW US TO DO IT THAT WAY. THIS IS LIKE A CONDO LEGALLY BECAUSE OF HOW YOU HAVE TO SET IT UP WITH A PRIVATE ROAD FROM THE CITY STANDARDS. IT IS. IT IS NOT ATTACHED. THESE ARE DETACHED, SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. BUT LEGALLY, YOU WOULD CALL IT A CONDO. BUT IT HAS NO CHARACTERISTICS. IT'S A LAND CONDO IS WHAT IT WOULD BE CALLED. SO WE HAVE AN HOA FOR THIS AREA? YES. THERE'LL BE AN HOA. YEAH, THERE'LL BE, IT'LL BE IT'LL BE A POA BECAUSE IT'S A PO. OKAY. BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO BE A CONDO. SO IT'LL HAVE TO BE A PROPERTY OWNERS ASSOCIATION. BUT YES. AND THESE ARE CONSIDERED ADUS BECAUSE OF THE LAYOUT OF THE FLOOR. NOT THEY'RE NOT MULTIPLE UNIT DEVELOPMENT OKAY. SO IT WOULD HAVE TO MEET THE NORMAL, YOU KNOW, REQUIREMENTS FOR COMMON SPACE, COMMON SPACE AND THAT KIND OF STUFF. CAN'T BE A STUDENT. IT'S NOT YOUR TYPICAL FIVE BEDROOM, FIVE BATH OKAY. IT'S A LOT OF COMMON SPACE. IT'S MASTER I MEAN VERY NICE HIGHER END HOMES FOR SALE. JUST TO REPEAT FOR SALE. YOUR YOUR INTENTION IS TO SELL THESE. CORRECT? YES, SIR. YES, SIR. AND THE REASON IT'S BEFORE US IS BECAUSE IT'S ONE LOT. BECAUSE IT'S MULTI UNIT. IT'S ALSO THE ZONING DISTRICT. YEAH YEAH YEAH. THAT. YEAH. THAT'S CORRECT. SO SINCE IT'S AN MUD AND CRD WHAT CRD W IT IS A CONDITIONAL USE. OKAY. THANK YOU. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS. THANKS GUYS. THANK YOU. OKAY. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ON THE COUNCIL? PERHAPS PLANNING CAN ANSWER THIS. WHAT'S THE SPACING BETWEEN THE SEVEN UNITS? SO BY BY CODE, IT'S REQUIRED TO BE 15, 15FT IN, IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE. SO IT'LL IT'LL HAVE TO MEET THAT. OKAY. THANKS. OKAY. WHAT ELSE? OKAY. DO WE HAVE A MOTION? SECOND. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? NAY. ONE. NAY. MOTION CARRIES. ITEM TEN B AUTHORIZES A ONE YEAR TAX ABATEMENT EXTENSION FOR RAMCHARAN LP PER THE ORIGINAL TAX ABATEMENT [10.b.Tax Abatement Extension. Rausch & Pausch, L.P] REQUEST. RAMCHARAN PLANS TO INVEST $25 MILLION AND CREATE 73 NEW JOBS, AND THEY JUST NEED A TOUCH MORE TIME FOR APPROVAL. SECOND. MOTION AND A SECOND. ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? AND THE MOTION CARRIES. ITEM TEN C AUTHORIZES A TAX ABATEMENT AMENDMENT FOR SHENHUA AUTO USA CORPORATION TO REFLECT ADDITIONAL INVESTMENT. [10.c.Tax Abatement Amendment. Shinhwa Auto USA Corp] THEIR ORIGINAL PLANNED INVESTMENT WAS $114 MILLION IN THE CREATION OF 50 JOBS. AND NOW WITH THIS AMENDMENT, THEY'RE INVESTING APPROXIMATELY $210 MILLION IN CREATING 50 JOBS. APPROVAL. SECOND. MOTION. SECOND. COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? CONGRATULATIONS TO OUR TEAM. THESE ARE TWO GREAT DECISIONS FOR THE COUNCIL TO MAKE TONIGHT. ALL RIGHT. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? AND THE MOTION CARRIES. ITEM TEN D AUTHORIZES A CONTRACT WITH BEASLEY CONSTRUCTION SERVICES INCORPORATED FOR UPGRADES TO PORTIONS OF BOTH THE AUBURN SOFTBALL [10.d. Beasley Construction Services, Inc. Auburn Softball Complex and Soccer Complex Project. $2,787,000] COMPLEX AND WIRE ROAD SOCCER COMPLEX IN THE AMOUNT OF $2,778,000. MOVE FOR APPROVAL. SECOND. MOTION SECOND. COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS FROM THE COUNCIL? MEGAN, IF YOU DON'T MIND, COULD YOU SPEAK ON JUST A BRIEF? REAL BRIEF, GIVEN THE TIME OF NIGHT? OKAY. ALLISON HALL REALLY WANTS TO TALK TO YOU TONIGHT, AND SHE IS GOING TO GIVE YOU REAL BRIEF. SHE HEARD YOU ABOUT THE BRIEF PART. OKAY, GOOD. OKAY. I'M HAPPY TO BE VERY BRIEF. SO, YES, THIS IS ADDING ARTIFICIAL TURF TO ONE ADDITIONAL FIELD AT WIRE ROAD SOCCER. THIS WILL ALLOW US TO PLAY EIGHT U6 FIELDS OR ONE FIELD OR ONE TENU FIELD, WHICH IS SUPER IMPORTANT AS OUR SOCCER PROGRAM CONTINUES TO GROW. AS FAR AS THE AUBURN SOFTBALL COMPLEX THIS WILL ALLOW US TO CONTINUE PLAY. AS YOU KNOW, IT'S A WONDERFUL COMPLEX. WE USE IT ALL THE TIME, BUT IT'S ALSO MOSTLY IN A FLOODPLAIN. SO WE HAVE SERIOUS ISSUES WHEN IT RAINS. JUST TO LET YOU KNOW. LAST YEAR IN SEASON, WE HAD 22 TEE BALL TEAMS AND 20 COACH PITCH TEAMS THAT WERE ABLE TO UTILIZE THE SOFTBALL COMPLEX, WHICH IS A HUGE NUMBER, AND THAT THOSE TWO AGE GROUPS CONTINUE TO GROW. BUT WE ALSO HAD A LOT OF CANCELLATIONS BECAUSE OF WEATHER ISSUES. THIS WILL ALLOW US TO CONTINUE TO PLAY, AND AS WE CONTINUE TO GROW OUR NUMBERS IN THOSE TWO AGE GROUPS, WE WON'T BE ABLE TO PUT KIDS ON SATURDAYS AND SUNDAYS AND THAT SORT OF THING. [03:20:04] THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? ALL RIGHT. ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. ANY OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES. ITEM TEN E. JUST STAY WITH ME FOR A MINUTE. IT AUTHORIZES A COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT WITH OPELIKA UNIVERSITY FC PROPERTY, LLC. [10.e.Opelika-University FC Property, LLC. Commercial development agreement. Unanimous consent necessary] UNANIMOUS CONSENT IS NECESSARY IN A PUBLIC HEARING IS REQUIRED. THIS IS BECAUSE IT IS A RESOLUTION OF PERMANENT OPERATION. THIS COMES FROM OUR LEGAL COUNSEL IN BIRMINGHAM. AS BUCKY'S WAS DONE THIS WAY AND OTHERS, AND HE HAS CHANGED OUR FORMAT. SO IT'S VERY UNUSUAL THAT IT'S A RESOLUTION THAT REQUIRES UNANIMOUS CONSENT. AND THEN WE DO A PUBLIC HEARING. WE SAY REQUIRED BECAUSE WE'VE ALWAYS DONE THEM. SO SOMEBODY NEEDS TO INTRODUCE IT, INTRODUCE THE RESOLUTION AND ASK FOR UNANIMOUS CONSENT TO INTRODUCE THE ORDINANCE AND ASK FOR UNANIMOUS CONSENT ABOUT A RESOLUTION. WE INTRODUCE THAT TOO. I'LL INTRODUCE THE RESOLUTION AND ASK FOR UNANIMOUS CONSENT OKAY. GOOD SECOND. ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE A MOTION. SECOND, DOES ANYONE HAVE A PROBLEM MOVING FORWARD AND VOTE ON THIS THIS EVENING? SEEING OR HEARING NONE. WE'LL OPEN THE PUBLIC HEARING. IF YOU'D LIKE TO ADDRESS CITY COUNCIL, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE US THE APPLICANT HAS BEEN HERE OR OUR OUR PARTNER THIS WHOLE TIME SITTING THROUGH THIS SO EVENING. HOW Y'ALL DOING? WE'RE DOING FINE. MY NAME'S SAM. HEIDI, 2600 HEATHER MOORE ROAD, BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA. 35223. I REALIZE I'M THE LAST PERSON ON THE AGENDA, SO I'M GOING TO USE ALL FIVE MINUTES. I'M JUST KIDDING. I'M GOING TO BE VERY BRIEF. I JUST WANTED TO INTRODUCE MYSELF. OUR AFFILIATE IS WICKER PARK CAPITAL MANAGEMENT. WE OWN THE PROPERTY. OUR OTHER COMPANY IS CRAWFORD SQUARE REAL ESTATE ADVISORS RELEASE AND MANAGE THE PROPERTY. SO WE'RE REALLY EXCITED TO MAKE AN INVESTMENT IN AUBURN A PLACE WHERE WE'VE WANTED TO DO BUSINESS FOR A LONG TIME, AND WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO IMPROVING THE PROPERTY. HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. YEAH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANKS FOR YOUR ENDURANCE AND YOUR INVESTMENT. ALL RIGHT. ANYONE ELSE LIKE TO SPEAK TO THE COUNCIL? OKAY. WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS FROM THE COUNCIL? CERTAINLY. WE'RE PROUD TO HAVE YOUR INVESTMENT. AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO OUR SHOPPING CENTER AND A GREAT LOCATION, EVEN GETTING BETTER. LOOK FORWARD TO THAT. ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR THOUGHTS? OKAY. SO THE CITY WILL PUT UP 300,000 IS THAT WE'LL REBATE $300,000. SO WE WERE PREVIOUSLY OBLIGATED REMAINING OBLIGATIONS ON TWO FORMER COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS TO THE PRIOR OWNER OF ABOUT $1.65 MILLION. THOSE AGREEMENTS WOULD REMAIN IN PLACE IF THIS ENTITY DID NOT BUY THIS PROJECT. BUT THOSE WERE CANCELED AND WE KNEW THAT THIS WAS COMING. THEY WERE PLANNING TO MAKE MULTIPLE INVESTMENTS OVER A PERIOD OF TIME. BUT RIGHT NOW THIS IS A JUST AN INITIAL FIVE YEAR TRANCHE. THEY MADE THE INVESTMENT TO BUY THE CENTER AND THEN TURN AROUND AND THEY'RE ENHANCING IT. AND OFTEN WE DON'T DO REBATES FOR ENHANCEMENTS. HOWEVER, THERE THE NEW OWNERS WHO WEREN'T COLLECTING COMMON AREA MAINTENANCE, MAINTENANCE MONEY OR OTHER THINGS. AND FROM THE FIRST DAY WE MET WITH THEM, THEIR GOAL WAS THEY WANT TO OVERALL ENHANCE THE LOOK OF THIS CENTER. THEY WANT WANT TO MAKE IT BETTER, AND THEY ALSO WANT TO AS TENANTS LEASES IN THEY INTEND TO IMPROVE THE TENANT MIX AND THEY SEE THE POTENTIAL. THIS IS A VERY HIGH TRAFFIC AREA. THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD TENANTS IN THE SHOPPING CENTER, BUT MORE COULD BE HAD. AND SO THIS IS AS AS LEASE COMES FOR RENEWAL, THEY'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO INCREASE THE MIX OF THE TENANTS AND THE QUALITY THEREOF. IS THAT OKAY? THAT'S WHY WE ARE WHERE WE ARE. THE TOTAL INVESTMENT THAT YOU EXPECT TO MAKE IN THE IN THE APPEARANCE. IT'S ABOUT 750,000. OKAY. SO AT LEAST A LITTLE OVER TWICE THAT. ARE YOU ARE YOU COMFORTABLE THAT WE'RE GETTING OUR MONEY'S WORTH, SO TO SPEAK? OH. YES, SIR. IT LOOKS LIKE A LOT OF PAINT I'M GOING TO BE. AND BUSHES AND. WELL. SO. SO PAINT AND BUSHES AND PARKING LOT REPAIRS, LIGHTING. YOU KNOW, ALL OF THOSE THINGS GO TO ENHANCE THE THE LOOK OF THE CENTER. AND, AND ULTIMATELY THAT HELPS US ATTRACT TENANTS THAT ARE GOING TO DO HIGHER SALES AND KEEP THE TENANTS THAT ARE ALREADY THERE THAT ARE CONTRIBUTING SALES TAX TO THE CITY. AND SO SO OUR INTENT IS TO IMPROVE THE SHOPPING CENTER SO THAT WE CAN CONTINUE TO MAKE IT A A GREAT COMMERCIAL DISTRICT AND ULTIMATELY IMPROVE IT. AND WE'VE DONE THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN THROUGHOUT THE SOUTHEAST, AND WE INTEND TO DO IT HERE FOR THE CITY OF AUBURN. IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO ME. THEY HAVE A HISTORY BEYOND THEIR OWN COMPANY. THEY WERE ALSO PREVIOUSLY A LOT OF PRINCIPALS HERE WITH BARE PROPERTIES, WHICH IS THE SUMMIT IN BIRMINGHAM. AND JEFFREY BARE HAS BEEN VERY INSTRUMENTAL IN A LOT OF THINGS WE'VE DONE IN IN AUBURN IN TERMS OF HE CAME TO ADVISE AS HE BELIEVED IN US, IN ENHANCING ALL COMMUNITIES IN ALABAMA WITH WITH THE RIGHT TYPES OF DEVELOPMENT. AND IT, YOU KNOW, FOR, FOR ME, JUST MEETING THE NEW INVESTORS, THEY COME FROM A CERTAIN SCHOOL OF THOUGHT AND HOW THEY LIKE TO DEVELOP CENTERS. AND WHAT WE WANT IS WE HAVE A LOT OF GREAT LOCAL OWNERS. [03:25:01] BUT WE ALSO HAVE ABSENT OWNERS, AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABSENT THERE IN BIRMINGHAM. BUT THEY ALSO ARE VERY COMMITTED TO CONTINUING TO REINVEST IN THIS CENTER. AND SO WE ALSO LOOKED AT IT VERY MUCH THAT THIS IS A $1.3 MILLION SAVINGS TO THE CITY AS OPPOSED TO AND WE'RE GETTING A NEW NEW INVESTMENTS AND ENHANCEMENTS ALONG THE WAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU AGAIN. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. MORE QUESTIONS. COMMENTS? OKAY, ALL IN FAVOR, PLEASE SAY AYE. ANY OPPOSED? AND THE MOTION CARRIES. ALL RIGHT. ITEM TEN F HAS ALREADY BEEN ACTED UPON. WE HAVE NO OTHER ITEMS OF BUSINESS. SO THEREFORE WE NEED A ROLL CALL ON THAT ONE OR NO. LET'S JUST DO A ROLL CALL JUST TO BE SAFE. THANK YOU. LINDSAY. I TOLD HER TONIGHT TO PLEASE INTERRUPT US. THANK YOU. LINDSAY. GO FOR IT. ADAMS. YES. COBLENTZ. YES, MA'AM. DAWSON. YES, MA'AM. GRISWOLD. YES, MA'AM. YES, MA'AM. PARSONS. YES. TAYLOR. YES. WHITTON. YES. ANDERS. YES. THANK YOU. LINDSAY. ALL RIGHT. WE HAVE NO OTHER ITEMS OF BUSINESS. AND SO THEREFORE, THOSE ARE ALL THE ITEMS OF BUSINESS WE NEED TO TEND TO THIS EVENING. AT THIS TIME, WE'LL [11. OTHER BUSINESS] OPEN CITIZENS OPEN FORUM. IF YOU'D LIKE TO ADDRESS CITY COUNCIL ABOUT ANYTHING, PLEASE COME FORWARD AND GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. YOU HAVE THREE [12. CITIZENS' OPEN FORUM.] MINUTES TO SPEAK AND WE ASK THAT YOU PLEASE ADDRESS YOUR COMMENTS TO THE COUNCIL. GOOD EVENING, GOOD EVENING, GOOD EVENING. BEEN A LONG NIGHT. NIGHTS. WE ALL GOT A LOT OF GOOD STUFF. AND I'M STEVE COSGROVE, LIVE IN 1927 WATERCRESS DRIVE. AND YOU GOT MY NOTE. SUNNY AND AND KELLY, FOR YOUR TIME IN THE SERVICE. WE REALLY, REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. YEAH. I WAS HERE, I THINK TWO MEETINGS AGO, FOUR WEEKS AGO. AND I MENTIONED A COUPLE THINGS THAT THAT MANHOLE THAT WAS NOT COVERED ON, ON ON DEAN ROAD AND SO FORTH, BY THE WAY, IT HAD BEEN THAT WAY FOR YEARS. IT'S NOT JUST LIKE SOMETHING JUST HAPPENED. IT'S JUST BEEN THAT WAY FOR YEARS. AND I'M REALLY GLAD THAT THAT GOT TAKEN CARE OF. I'D HATE TO SEE SOMETHING FALL DOWN THERE, PARTICULARLY LIKE A LITTLE CHILD OR SOMETHING THAT COULDN'T GET OUT OF THERE, PARTICULARLY IF IT RAINED. THE OTHER THING I MENTIONED, AND LAST SATURDAY MORNING, I PULLED I DROVE IN FRONT OF YOUR CITY HALL THERE AVENUE. AND I WAS I WAS THERE, RIGHT. AND DEAN. OKAY. OKAY. OKAY. SORRY. YES. SO I'M TIRED, BUT AND RIGHT, RIGHT THERE. MY WORST FEARS ARE RIGHT IN FRONT OF THIS YOUNG LADY WAS WALKING ACROSS. SHE WAS A COLLEGE STUDENT. HAD HER LITTLE BACKPACK ON. SHE WAS CLEARLY WALKING ACROSS THE STREET. AND THIS GUY COMES BARRELING ASS UP THERE, AND HE DIDN'T. HE DIDN'T. I WISH I HAD A DASH CAM. COULD HAVE BEEN RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF ME. HE DIDN'T. HE DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT STOPPING. AND SHE WASN'T EVEN THINKING ABOUT LOOKING. AND IT'S JUST IT'S JUST A IT'S JUST A REAL CONCERN. I SEE SOMETHING REALLY BAD HAPPENING THERE SOMETIMES I JUST I WOULD HATE THAT THAT SOMETHING LIKE THAT. COULD INJURE OR OR WORSE, MAIM. SERIOUSLY? A STUDENT THAT THAT INTERSECTION. I'VE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION. THAT INTERSECTION TO ME IS THE IS THE MOST DANGEROUS PEDESTRIAN CROSSWALK IN DOWNTOWN AUBURN, WITHOUT A DOUBT, BECAUSE THERE'S 4 OR 5 LANES OF TRAFFIC THERE THAT ARE GOING ALL KINDS OF WAYS, AND THE TRAFFIC GETS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT, THAT BREAKER BAR THERE GOING NORTH, IF IT'S A BOX TRUCK SORT OF THING, IT OBFUSCATES. BEING ABLE TO SEE ANY PEDESTRIAN AND PEDESTRIANS AREN'T THINKING ABOUT LOOKING FOR TRAFFIC THAT COULD THAT COULD REALLY HURT THEM. SO I JUST REALLY I BEG YOU, I'M TELLING YOU RIGHT NOW, I BEG YOU TO PLEASE TAKE A FEW MINUTES, GO OUT THERE AND GET OUT OF THE CITY HALL AND JUST LOOK AT THAT, AND I BEG YOU TO TO DO SOMETHING WITH THAT. I WOULD NEVER FORGIVE MYSELF IF I HADN'T BROUGHT THIS UP TO YOU. I CAN SEE IT HAPPENING. I KNOW IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, AND THERE'S NO REASON TO NOT TAKE SOME PROACTIVE HAPPENING. WE JUST NEED ONE OF THE VERY BRIGHT AND SHINY YELLOW SIGNS. I WOULD PAY FOR IT MYSELF. THANK YOU, MR. COSGRAVE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE APPRECIATE YOUR CONCERN. WHO WILL BE NEXT? I ACTUALLY HAD NO INTENTION OF GIVING ONE. I GUESS I WANTED TO SEE IF WE NEEDED A LIQUOR LICENSE HERE AT 2:00, YOU KNOW? SO. BUT ANYWAY ALSO, MY WIFE SENT ME A VIDEO OF A FIREPLACE, AND I SAID THE LAST THING I NEED IS TO BE RELAXING BECAUSE [03:30:01] I'M PRETTY TIRED. ALSO FIRST MAJOR DECISION THAT THIS COUNCIL HAS MADE WAS THE BUSINESS REVOCATION LICENSE, AND I APPRECIATE IT. BACK THEN WHEN Y'ALL DID THAT, THE SECOND MAJOR DECISION THAT Y'ALL HAVE MADE WAS A MORATORIUM. AND I APPRECIATE THAT VERY MUCH, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE GIVE THANKS TO KELLY GRISWOLD AND FOR ALL THE THINGS THAT YOU'VE SAID, BETH, AND EXCUSE ME WITTEN AND TYLER. I'M TYLER AND ALSO MAX. I THOUGHT THERE WERE A LOT OF GOOD QUESTIONS ASKED. I HOPE THAT Y'ALL INCLUDE THE CITIZENS, BECAUSE SOMETHING THAT YOU BROUGHT UP. COUNCILMAN. GRISWOLD WAS THAT DIDN'T KNOW WHERE IT HAPPENED. YOU KNOW, ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE CITY BROUGHT UP THE PROBLEM. BUT YOU DID MENTION THE REAL ANSWER, AND THAT WAS THAT CITIZENS HAVE BEEN BRINGING IT UP FOR A LONG TIME. I KNOW AS LONG AS I HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH THE SHORT TERM RENTAL STUFF, I HAVE ALSO BROUGHT THAT UP, AND I'VE ACTUALLY MADE VIDEOS ON THAT. AND I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO START INCLUDING CITIZENS SO THAT WHEN YOU MAKE DECISIONS, YOU INVOLVE THEM. AND INVOLVEMENT MEANS I BELIEVE WE NEED A TASK FORCE REALLY BAD. ALSO I THINK AUBURN UNIVERSITY NEEDS TO BE NOTIFIED THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO DO A PERMANENT MORATORIUM ON THAT KIND OF DEVELOPMENT IN JUST THIS AREA, BECAUSE WE HAVE ENOUGH. WE HAVE PLENTY. AND I BELIEVE YOUR NEXT MAJOR DECISION IS GOING TO BE EVEN MORE DIFFICULT IS WHAT IS BIG ENOUGH IN AUBURN? WHAT HOW DO OR WHERE DO WE STOP? I MEAN, IT'S KIND OF LIKE A BILLIONAIRE BECOMING A BIGGER BILLIONAIRE OR A MILLIONAIRE BECOMING MORE MILLIONAIRE. WHAT? WHAT ARE WE REALLY LOOKING FOR? ARE WE LOOKING FOR AN INCREDIBLE COMMUNITY? ARE WE LOOKING FOR INCOME? ARE WE LOOKING FOR GREAT REVENUE? IS THAT ALL WE'RE LOOKING FOR? BECAUSE THAT'S ALL I EVER HEAR, TO BE HONEST, IS ALL THE REVENUE, ALL THE THINGS WE CAN DO. EVEN SOME OF THE DEVELOPERS AND I BELIEVE IN DEVELOPMENT. I'VE OWNED BUSINESSES, I UNDERSTAND IT, BUT IS THERE NOT A LEVEL THAT WE NEED TO START LOOKING AT AND THEN REFINING THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE. WE HAVE A PLANNING COMMISSION. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING PLANNING COMMISSION DOES EXCEPT DECIDE ON DIFFERENT ZONING THINGS AND SO FORTH AND REQUIREMENTS. BUT MAYBE THERE NEEDS TO BE SOMEHOW THAT THEY START WORKING ON THE BEAUTIFICATION, THE BEAUTY OF OF A CITY LIKE AUBURN, WITH ALL THE GREAT TALENT AND ALL THE GREAT THINGS AND INVOLVING MORE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY AND ALL THE COMMITTEES. SUBDIVIDE THOSE COMMITTEES INVOLVE MORE PEOPLE. THANK YOU. WHO'LL BE NEXT? ANYONE? OKAY. CLOSED. OPEN FOR COUNCIL. HAVE ANYTHING THEY'D LIKE TO ADD? I WOULD, I WAS GOING TO MOVE TO ADJOURN, BUT I SECOND YOU. HAPPY THANKSGIVING. WE ARE ADJOURNED. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.